Date   

Re: Lab to test for pathogens in biochar charged with human urine? #analysis #urine #pathogen

Geoff Thomas
 

Other than pay some lab (large?) amounts of money, I would think mixing it with a good quantity of green compost would process anything active, to the benefit of both the compost and the Biochar,  and the toxins if any would be absorbed by the charcoal component.

Probably folk in East Africa don’t consume much heavy metals or such and traditionally human urine doesn’t hurt plant growth unless excessive, - ie the boyfriend always pisses in the same flower pot :) 

Cheers,

Geoff Thomas.

On 11 Oct 2020, at 4:47 am, Kevin McLean <info@...> wrote:

Any suggestions? 

We are beginning to collect large amounts of char in East Africa made from maize stalks and cobs using the Agwa TLUD.

<Sacks of Biochar 1.png>
<Sacks of Biochar 2.png>
The urine will be from many people and the biochar will be used on commercial farms.  I want to determine if the biochar is safe to use immediately after charging with urine, safe after a period of time or never safe.

Thank you,
Kevin

Kevin McLean, President
Sun24
Tampa, Florida, USA
+1 (813) 505-3340

                     


Re: Lab to test for pathogens in biochar charged with human urine? #analysis #urine #pathogen

mikethewormguy
 

Kevin,

I would test the urine before applying it to the char

I would recommend creating a lot system for the urine collection for the purpose of traceability. The volume of the lot is based on risk management and not on science.  It is a business decision.

Each lot should be tested and the lot test data provided to the grower.

The pathogens we test for include generic Ecoli, Salmonella,  fecal coliform, and shigella toxin. Here in the US these test take around 5 days to get done and cost around $100 total.

You may want to consider a "kill" step using either dropping the pH or adding an essential oil.  The kill step provides assurance that no matter what happens upstream, the material applied to the crop is pathogen free at the time of delivery.

In addition, are you familiar with HACCP....?  Hazard Analysis Crtical Control Points is a food safety approach that maps all of the steps in a process where a contaminant, physical, biological, chemical, can enter the process. 

Food Safety is all about risk management. Lot control is all about limiting the size of your risk.

my 3 cents 

Mike, a Food Safety/ HACCP auditor in a prior life.......


Simple Biochar retort or oven -seeking designs or plans #technology #kiln #pah

Kobus Venter
 

Hi Kim,

Unfortunately not. PM2.5 also not predicted. It would be useful to know PM in micrograms per cubic meter (μg/m3). I guess it can be converted if anyone is up for it?

Wbr

Kobus 



On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 20:14 Kim Chaffee, <kim.chaffee2@...> wrote:
Kobus,

Also, do you have the particulate emissions in micrograms per cubic meter (μg/m3).  I assume the testing company didn’t measure PM2.5.  Thanks.

Kim


On Oct 10, 2020, at 1:34 PM, Kim Chaffee via groups.io <kim.chaffee2@...> wrote:

Hello Kobus,

Thank you for that very helpful data and video.  Do you have the gas pollutant results in parts per million or billion (ppm or ppb)?  This information would be helpful for scaling the results to other size kilns.  Thanks.

Kim Chaffee




On Oct 10, 2020, at 12:17 PM, Kobus Venter <kobus@...> wrote:

Hi all,

We have had the emissions emitted by VUTHISA kilns tested by AIRSHED. Results attached. Emission rates and factors were not available so use was made of emission factors for charcoal kilns as reported by Pennise et al (2001), primarily and US EPA AP42. 

Point Source Emissions ~  Maximum Hourly Release Rate

From left to right:

Pollutant Name|mg/Nm³|mg/Am³|Emissions kg/hr 

CH4 (a) 936|319|0,25
CO2 (a) 37816|12876|10,0
N2O(a) 3,2|1,07|0,0008
CO 4680|1593,00|1,25
NO 11,8|4,0|0,0031
NOx 13,2|4,5|0,0035
PM(b) 638|217,00|0,17
PAH(c) 0,07|0,023|0,000018
VOC 1943|662|0,52
(a) Greenhouse gas
(b) Minimum emission standard for PM, 50 mg/Nm3
(c) Minimum emission standard for PAH, 0.1 mg/Nm3

VUTHISA kilns uses after burning to reduce emissions. The US EPA states that afterburning is estimated to reduce PM, CO and VOC emissions by at least 80%. The above fugures includes the 80% reduction.

Thought that may be of interest.

Here is a video of the process: https://youtu.be/2xhhYFMOTps

Thx

Kobus








<Screenshot_20201010-173344-2.jpg>



Re: FW: Origins of flame cap technology #flamecap #technology

Tom Miles
 

In 2019 US Biochar proposed emission testing of several carbonizers, including flame cap kilns, for the purpose of developing a “climate index” of technologies to show relative contributions to carbon reduction. That proposal was rejected but the work still needs to be done. Methane, although a minor component of emissions from industrial sources, is often not measured directly in testing for compliance with emissions regulations. Carbon Monoxide is often used as a surrogate for unburned hydrocarbons. Small scale systems like flame cap kilns are often not tested. One kiln we attempted to test a few years ago was too big for a lab which is certified to test emissions from wood heating appliances. Special equipment is required.

 

This week we conducted test burns of the US Forest Service/Air Burners Inc. “Charboss” which is a small air curtain incinerator designed to recover biochar. Air Curtain Incinerators are efficient burners for volume reduction. Th Charboss is still under development. It is an adaptation of the ABI Burn Boss which was developed by ABI for the USFS to burn small hand piles of slash efficiently. The intent of the USFS/ABI Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) is to optimize carbon recovery from the mobile units. We conducted tests in two different applications: invasive species and forest residues. The invasive species is gorse, Ulex europaeus, which introduced from Scotland in the late 1800s and  has taken over more than 35,000 acres in the sand dunes on the Oregon Coast. It is an oily, awkward, highly flammable  material with persistent seeds that make it difficult to eradicate. It has caused the local town to burn down twice. The small stem diameter makes it difficult to carbonize in the air burner. The forest residues were in slash piles at 5000 feet elevation in a thinned firebreak intended to protect a forest stand and wilderness area from the spread of wildfire. The slash was more suited to carbon recovery. The operation was similar to the larger scale air curtain burner demonstration that Kelpie and the Umpqua Biochar Education Team (UBET) demonstrated a few years ago. Permitting rules and procedures in Oregon have changed since then.     

 

Our Clean Air Oregon division of the department of environmental quality has been modelling potential toxic emissions from air curtain incinerators prior to permitting. For our demonstrations we were required to analyze potential toxic metals in the fuel, char, ash, cooling water and, by difference, in the emissions. Required emission testing was using EPA Method 9 for opacity during startup (1/2 hr), operation (three one-hour tests) and shutdown (1/2 to two hours).  Opacity Method 9 requires an observer who has been EPA certified within the last six months. The tests demonstrated less than 10% opacity using this method which corresponds to particulate emissions of less than 0.1 grains/dry standard cubic foot in these devices. Testing emissions in an open stack with turbulent mixing in a curtain of air that is just four feet wide and 10 feet long can be a challenge. Temperatures and velocities varied widely. A collector hood above the stack has been used in formal tests for full scale (8 ft x 40 ft) air curtain burners. EPA and others have done a substantial amount of particulate and opacity emission testing for the ABI devices. There has been less gaseous emission testing, especially for the long list of toxic compounds that the authorities would like to see documented.  

 

Tom

 

    

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Hugh McLaughlin via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:45 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] FW: Origins of flame cap technology

 

Kelpie notes: So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.

 

Where is this emission data available? - Hugh

 

 

 

On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 8:31:02 AM EDT, Paul S Anderson <psanders@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 7:12 AM
To: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

The important thing about the Kon-Tiki is it is a self regulating natural draft system that provides mixing and a sufficiency of PA and SA in ratio.  More vortex, as is obtained with the stronger focused convection with a heat shield, drives more PA and SA. More PA drives faster pyrolysis, greater release of gases, but also hotter walls, and more heat and updraft above the kiln, all of which drive more convection, which drives more SA for complete combustion of more pyrogas, and so on.  

So unless there is a desire to limit pyrolysis rate, or T, or a safety issue, my usual instruction is to feed the flame, making it as big as you can grow it.  Throw the new material into flame. The generated heat will soon spread flame to other areas.  Feed too fast or too slow and flame will get less.  Flame is your friend in a flame cap kiln doing all the functions you need. Growing the flame is helpful when the kiln is being used in its function of turning a cleanup job into biochar efficiently. If the flame is too big (safety issue), then this is a good time to dump in that rotting log, damper/bigger biomass, or some fresher prunings, you would like gone.  The Amazonians search out certain rotting logs to smolder in their terra preta production fire if they wanted to make a terra preta for high fertility.  

Growing the flame does not influence much the HTT.  I always found a consistent temp in the pyrolysis zone, under the flame, which dropped in a regular way as the material was increasingly covered.  Slowing (and improving) pyrolysis and lowering T may be achieved by throwing in clay, or with water sprays. The caveat on growing the flame in order to maximize biomass processing rate is if you dump a big piece in it may get buried before it has fully dried and substantially commenced full pyrolysis, which with insufficient residence time after that may result in an incompletely processed piece at the end of the day.  So there is an optimum feedstock size suitable for optimal production rate, and and a maximum size for given future session duration. Pyrolysis rate in wood, limited by drying and conductivity of wood/char is roughly 1in of thickness per hour.  When only 1.5 hour left to run before quench, limit diameter to 2in dry material (1 h to process that and 30 min for exhaustion and combustion of residual pyrogas from the kiln).  Heat shield helps, including greatly in thermal comfort around an aggressively or optimally operated kiln.  

CFD on the Kon Tiki would be a fun project.  However, I did apply quite a bit of quantitative convection modeling including with heat shield.  A thing that must be tried is to put a 55g drum chimney above the KT, with no cone.   We did inverted cone and chimney, but I did not get around to chimney with no cone. The right height is above the dead zone which is above the hole of the vortex donut.  This allows room to enter biomass, and will drag all combustion gases around the dead zone into it, and enhance updraft, hence all vortex rates and stability. The inverted cone hood does not help (it can interfere with the vortex) and is not needed, as a virtual hood will form naturally. I realized immediately in 2014 the KT is a natural draft, cylindrically symmetric, air curtain burner, hence the earlier name of flame curtain kiln.

Looks like COVID will trap us in Australia, This will be the first time I have spent a year here since 1967.

Regards...Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:57 PM, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...> wrote:

Dear all,
 
It is great to collect all these historical and technical information. What do you think about editing all this into a tBJ article?
 
Please find attached the Kon-Tiki emission paper, that Kelpie mentioned. Here we tested Kon-Tikis with different angels (between 45° to 70°), volume (0.2 to 1 m3) and materials (steel w./w.o. rim shield and hole in the ground). Essentially, the different forms, volumes, materials did not show significant differences. The most important variable is the care that the char-maker invests to maintain a continuous hot flame cap. Once the fire zone is not hot enough and smoke evolves, PM, CH4, CO emissions peak. Crucial are also the starting and the quenching phase. In the upcoming paper by Amonette et al. data will be presented that the biochar from Kon-Tiki type making can be considered at climate neutral for the first 20 to 30 years but not as a carbon sink due to the CH4 emissions. As shown in Cornelissen et al. the CH4-emissions are low compared to traditional char making or to wild fires but due to the high GWP of methane in the first 20 years, the biochar sink can only compensate the climate forcing of the methane during this first two decades.
 
>From experience, we use shallower Kon-Tiki (30-45°) for lower caloric and small sized biomass like straw, husks, cobs, leaves that pyrolyse very quickly; and deeper kilns (60 – 90°) for higher caloric but denser and more voluminous biomass like wood.
 
Attached are some further publications dedicated to flame cap pyrolysis and characterization of the resulting chars.  
 
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 

Von: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>
Datum: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2020 um 05:40
An: Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Cc: Biochar Group <main@biochar.groups.io>, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology



Excellent questions Hugh. Emissions testing is the bottleneck we have to get through, if we want to

get to the next level with flame cap devices.

Jim Amonette has brought the methane issue to our attention.

So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.



The biggest innovation in Flame Caps so far has been Paul Taylor's idea of adding a heat shield.

This has very fun effects on fluid and combustion dynamics and I wish we had a computational fluid dynamics

person who could look at this as an afterburner design problem.



In the meantime we all continue to tinker.

Check out some nice video of flaming vortex loops in this short video I made:

https://youtu.be/oCQ6NoY2-Fg


Kelpie



On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...> wrote:


List, et al.



Since we are drilling down on the flame cap option, what is the consensus on emissions and levels of unburned VOC's, methane, etc. I am concerned there is a continuous region of quenching at the limits of the flames as they dart around, leaving carbon monoxide and perhaps forming PM2.5 via the Boudouard reaction, and possibly methane forming in the lower sections of the pyrolyzing biomass that does not combust in the flame cap due to methane's high auto-ignition temperature of above 550C. In addition, the issue of transient emissions during the addition of fresh biomass and the readily observed transient smoke escaping the flame cap.



If anyone has any data, please share it and the source with the group.



Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE



On Friday, October 9, 2020, 7:13:29 PM EDT, Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> wrote:





This angle was certainly a question.  I always made the 1.2m diam kilns with 60 deg sides because with that angle you naturally maximally use a standard 1:2 format rectangular sheet.  The first KT was steeper.  The maximization of use is not quite unique for the 2 sheets needed to make bigger cones but I settled on a maximum volume achieved at about 64.5 deg and 1.65m diameter (for 1.2m x 2.4m sheets; 1.69 m diam, 67.6 deg for the 4% larger Chinese/European sheets).

The convection dynamics indicated that steep, tall sides maximized vortex strength and stability. This of course is aided by the sides being hotter, so a heat shield with proper spacing, computed from thickness of skin layers, helped in several ways.  Very shallow cones switch to a reverse vortex as you would expect with a flat sheet, as Josiah first did it, and this is the incorrect vortex shown in the Japanese drawings.  There is an intermediate shallow cone angle (<45 deg), where the two modes compete, so the vortex has no strength and stability and it is hard to maintain good fire with inimical feedstock.

A couple of reasons for cone shape seemed to be easier to start with small fire, and quicker coverage and protection of biochar in early stages by more char.   However, understanding the vortex dynamics would be strong in a vertical wall, encouraged the simplification to rings.  These could be started well and quickly with air leakage around the bottom, which was blocked once the sides were hot and updraft strong, so the vortex kicked in.  The strong vortex drives air down to the pyrolysis front, determining the rate of pyrolysis, so has importance.  The big Mokis were truncated cones with open bottom as well, but were generally not deep.

We were unsure of our success with the first running of the completely sealed bottom of the deep cone KT. In fact we did find it hard to start with a small fire in the bottom, and we learned to start a fire on top of biomass piled high up into the kiln to aid access of air to the initial fire.

A new innovation in the KT was the drain at the bottom to allow easy draining and capture of the smoke water, which opened up the method of bottom quenching with nutrient solutions.  Naturally we experimented with leaving the small drain open for starting, closing it later, but surprisingly it did not help in natural draft, which I later realized was due to the convection flows creating a low pressure under the kiln.

Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:06 AM, "tmiles@..." <tmiles@...> wrote:

Interesting history. In my conversations with both Mokei and Dr. Ogawa in Japan in 2011 he emphasized the importance of the 60 degree angle of the sides of the kiln for optimizing char production. At the time Moki was offering kilns up to 10 feet in diameter but the ones we saw in use were more like 4-6 feet in diameter.
 
Tom
 
 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 10:09 AM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 

Hi all: the origin for me of the flame cap was Tom Reed’s open pyramid pyrolysis, and his exemplification of it in “pinecone pyrolysis”, and of course the Jack Daniel’s method from the 1930s, which Peter Hirst presented in his chapter in the Biochar Revolution, 2010.

The cone approach for me was specifically inspired by Tom Miles in his 2011 presentation referencing the Jan 2010 paper on the use of the Moki Kiln for making biochar for the “Cool Veges” initiative: A Rural Revitalization Scheme in Japan Utilizing Biochar and Eco-Branding: The Carbon Minus Project, Kameoka City. Steven R. McGreevy, Akira Shibata,
and by this report using the Moki kiln.
Properties of Cinders from Red Pine, Black Locust and Henon Bamboo Inoue, Y ; Mogi, K ; Yoshizawa, S
APBC Kyoto 2011

That was reinforced by an article and blog by an Englishman who reported a technique of gradually pushing biomass into an open fire in a pit or trench.  In my presentations I included Tom Reeds pyramid pyrolysis and the Moki kiln to explain methods of making biochar distinct from the TLUD and the retort, and I started to design large transportable flame cap ring kilns, assembled in sections, for handling large burn piles on my property in N NSW.  Independently, in late 2012, Dolph, a neighbor here, reported making biochar in an open top, deep steel ring, which he called the Moxham.    http://biocharproject.org/charmasters-log/farm-scale-biochar/

In 2013 Kelpie also discovered and reported the gradual feeding technique for the cone kiln, and Stuart Mather drew attention to the Holy Mother Kiln that Dr Reddy reported in May 2011:  https://biocharkiln.blogspot.com   He called it a TLUD but you can start a flame cap ring in a “TLUD” mode, then convert to flame cap by closing off the primary air, thus preserving the created char and allowing more biomass to be added till the kiln is full of char.  

So 2013 was a big year for the convergent emergence of the flame cap method, I think for some of us triggered by Tom Miles presentation in 2011, but it might be considered a reprise of an earlier convergent emergence in 2009-11 of explorations by Josiah, Reddy, the Japanese, and the Englishman. It took till 2013/14 for a final breaking of the spell that making biochar required various complexities of vessels, pipes, seals, lids and chimneys.

This then was all brought to Switzerland in Jul 2014 and comingled with Hans-Peter’s provenance.  Kon Tiki was named as we first lit it because it was the first voyage of a large deep cone kiln, and we had no idea if it could work.  The name was confirmed when I discovered Kon-Tiki was a fire/sun god.  The observation of the inward rolling vortex in the Kon-Tiki (similar to back eddies familiar from rafting the Grand Canyon) were consistent with physics, and corrected the confusing unphysical convection arrows shown in the Japanese drawings.  This convection driven dynamic provided a natural draft system that conveyed a balance and sufficiency of air and mixing to both the pyrolysis and the gas combustion regions. Calculations of the convective flow velocities confirmed this, and also guided understanding of the impact of diameter and wall slope, verified by subsequent experiments.

For me this was a renewal of a much earlier origin in 1980 during my 9 month’s of studies in India. There I acquired and brought back to the US an Agni Yoga pyramid, a small copper inverted pyramid, which is used to pyrolyse a mixture of cow dung, ghee and rice hulls or other biomass in a dawn and dusk ritual to heal earth and atmosphere (with the C/ash residue being valued for soil fertility). This inspired an interest in fire as an important element to manage, which manifested in starting a company in the 1980s, Micro-organic Fuel. This combined enzyme digested rice hulls or wheat straw, coal dust, and sodium silicate, and heated them to make low S synthetic fire logs or beautiful fire-proof wood-like building materials (depending on the amount of sodium silicate).  

The cone kiln or pyramid kiln (and open flame cap kiln in general), literalized the Agni ritual into a technology to physically heal earth and atmosphere, and I began calling my workshops such.  Hans-Peter and I discussed all this as we explored all variations of shapes and sizes, including heat shields and pits, during our first Kon-Tiki runs in Switzerland.

In Australia later in 2014 with Stephen Joseph we explored snuffing with a cover consisting of combinations of Fe rich clay, compost and cold charcoal, which in a reprise of Josiah’s discovery provided a baking for at least 4 days during which spatial and temporal temperature profiles measured in the range 250-450C. This produced a layer of biochar mineral complex to mix into the biochar.

Paul

On 10/9/20, 1:50 PM, "josiah hunt" <josiahhunt@...> wrote:

Hi Paul, here is a much better copy of that Poster from the Ames Conference 2010

On Oct 8, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Thank you all very much.   If you think of other info or people, please contact me and the others.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <
schmidt@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 3:45 PM
To: josiah hunt <
josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dear Paul and all,
(adding Paul Taylor on cc)
 
I do not remember exactly if I found out about the “flame cap” / “flame curtain” principle through Kelpie’s backyard website or through Josiah’s pit demonstration. It was the one or the other but what is sure is that what we called the Kon-Tiki came after (in 2014) and was inspired by Kelpie, Josiah, Moki, Moxham, Wittman, Gilmore and the ancients. Paul (Taylor) and I described this “history” in our first article about the Kon-Tiki, the democratization of biochar production:
https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39.
Our part in the story is mainly the popularization of the Kon-Tiki through articles and open access designs and operating instructions. This led to the nice success of Kon-Tiki type constructions in > 65 countries already in 2017.
 
In our article, Paul and I also explain why we choose the Kon-Tiki as a generic name for it and why it was important to use a catchy, generic name. Outside the US, and in a growing number of scientific publications, everybody uses the name Kon-Tiki which is very helpful for the scale-up and community exchange.
 
Thanks to Kelpie and Josiah, who started this journey for all of us.
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 
Von: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2020 um 20:04
An: "Anderson, Paul" <
psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>, Tom Miles <tmiles@...>, 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>, Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

Hello All,
 
Covergent evolution.  
 
In August 2008, I first began efforts to intentionally produce biochar.  Guided by memories of bonfires on the beach, and the large bed of coals present in the waning hours, the first fires were on flat ground and built in a way that had a fast crescendo towards a peak point, then allowed to burn to coals before quenching.  When shaping the ground after each fire and before the next, ash and char would be scraped up, and a small depression was formed, this spurred the thinking that intentionally increasing that depression would make a better bed for the coals, and could give me better air control against the air intake that happens at the sides and bottoms and directly eats the building stock of char.  Deepening the depression quickly showed positive results.  Trial and error quickly resulted in a cone shaped pit in the ground with a high back on the lee side (when incline is present).  Several pits were used for commercial production of biochar for a period lasting about 5 years.  Several hundred tons of biochar were produced in this manner during that time.
 
Quenching was performed with water in the first efforts.  Then it was discovered that a dirt cover, applied only at the end when all the wood has been carbonized, could snuff out the embers effectively and efficiently.  Dirt cover would be removed several days later during harvesting of char.  Metal roofing and several other materials were trialled for coverings.  Clay rich dirt was the favored cover material, and was re-used many times until it became more charcoal than clay, at which point it was tossed in the compost.  
 
NOTE: The soils where I was doing the majority of the commercial production fires were mostly volcanic cinder, which allowed a unique trick - the embers could gently and evenly breath just enough oxygen from the soil to keep the temperatures at or above 250C for days or even weeks if I were to let it. This allowed for a “baking” trick that is rarely repeatable.  
 
Attached is a poster I presented at the 2010 conference in Ames Iowa.  
 
- Josiah Hunt
808 936-3484

"Each generation is entitled to the interest on the natural capital, but the principal should be handed on unimpaired."
Canada’s Commission on Conservation (1915)

<image001.jpg>
 

On Oct 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:
 
Kelpie,    And adding Josiah Hunt to this group of recipients and Hugh because he has been following this for years.
 
It was as recent as 2012 for you  !!!   The concept came from Japan but not brought by the Japanese.   How did you come across the concept?   Was Josiah Hunt making char in pits back then?   Or when did he start and why?   
 
These stories of origins will be lost if we do not pull them together.
 
Because of you I made my first attempt with a half-barrel (longitudinal cut) in 2014, and I immediately want to the covered design with the portal in the side and chimneys, put in a provisional patent application and then in 2015 started showing the covered cavity kiln (which did not rotate to accomplish the mixing until the second half of 2019).
 
Did Hans-Peter or Kathleen or anyone else do flame cap work then or earlier?
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Cc:
tmiles@...; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Looking at my photo records, I see that I finally figured out how to use the cone kiln in spring 2013
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4qpskMMRBg4V4M26
I built it the year before and it took me many tries to figure out how it worked. The pictures from Japan were all I had to go on.
I gave a flash talk on the cone kiln at the 2013 USBI conference in Amherst and after that, a lot of people started experimenting with cone kilns
I then switched to pyramid and cylinder shapes because the cone was much too difficult and expensive to fabricate. The other shapes work just as well if not better, especially the cylinder.  Dolph Cooke pioneered the cylinder kilns around the same time I made my cone kiln.
Thanks for being the historian here, Paul!
 
-Kelpie
 
-Kelpie
 
 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 9:09 AM Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...> wrote:


Tom,
 
Yes, roots of flame cap go back to Japan.    When did it get started, or when did you see him making biochar?
 
But sometimes there can be LOOOOONG lead up times.   Like hundreds of years for terra preta before it was becoming recognized in about 2007.    
 
Who “brought the Moki kiln to the attention of a wider audience”?   HPS and Kelpie were really early, right?   But when were their starts?    I hope they will  answer.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From:
tmiles@... <tmiles@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>; 'Kelpie Wilson' <kelpiew@...>; ''Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal' <schmidt@...>; 'Kathleen Draper' <draper@...>
Subject: RE: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dr. Makato Ogawa, the Moki Kiln, Japan was the first one I saw making biochar.
 
Tom
 
 
From: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 9:47 PM
To: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Tom Miles - Oregon - listservs <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Subject: Origins of flame cap technology
 
Kelpie, Hans-Peter, Kathleen and Tom,
 
When and by whom did the flame cap technology begin and become recognized?   I also call  it “cavity kilns” of which there are open top and covered versions, but nothing on that occurred until 2014.   
 
We should eventually get such information recorded, but my need at the moment is to give credit to the  early innovators and the time period of origin, so general answers are fine.
 
I  hope to hear from you soon.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 


 

 


 


Lab to test for pathogens in biochar charged with human urine? #analysis #urine #pathogen

Kevin McLean
 

Any suggestions? 

We are beginning to collect large amounts of char in East Africa made from maize stalks and cobs using the Agwa TLUD.

Sacks of Biochar 1.png
Sacks of Biochar 2.png
The urine will be from many people and the biochar will be used on commercial farms.  I want to determine if the biochar is safe to use immediately after charging with urine, safe after a period of time or never safe.

Thank you,
Kevin

Kevin McLean, President
Sun24
Tampa, Florida, USA
+1 (813) 505-3340

                     


Re: Origins of flame cap technology #flamecap #technology

Harald Bier
 

Am 10.10.2020 um 17:45 schrieb Hugh McLaughlin via groups.io <wastemin1@...>:

Kelpie notes: So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.

Where is this emission data available? - Hugh



On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 8:31:02 AM EDT, Paul S Anderson <psanders@...> wrote:


 
 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 7:12 AM
To: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 

The important thing about the Kon-Tiki is it is a self regulating natural draft system that provides mixing and a sufficiency of PA and SA in ratio.  More vortex, as is obtained with the stronger focused convection with a heat shield, drives more PA and SA. More PA drives faster pyrolysis, greater release of gases, but also hotter walls, and more heat and updraft above the kiln, all of which drive more convection, which drives more SA for complete combustion of more pyrogas, and so on.  

So unless there is a desire to limit pyrolysis rate, or T, or a safety issue, my usual instruction is to feed the flame, making it as big as you can grow it.  Throw the new material into flame. The generated heat will soon spread flame to other areas.  Feed too fast or too slow and flame will get less.  Flame is your friend in a flame cap kiln doing all the functions you need. Growing the flame is helpful when the kiln is being used in its function of turning a cleanup job into biochar efficiently. If the flame is too big (safety issue), then this is a good time to dump in that rotting log, damper/bigger biomass, or some fresher prunings, you would like gone.  The Amazonians search out certain rotting logs to smolder in their terra preta production fire if they wanted to make a terra preta for high fertility.  

Growing the flame does not influence much the HTT.  I always found a consistent temp in the pyrolysis zone, under the flame, which dropped in a regular way as the material was increasingly covered.  Slowing (and improving) pyrolysis and lowering T may be achieved by throwing in clay, or with water sprays. The caveat on growing the flame in order to maximize biomass processing rate is if you dump a big piece in it may get buried before it has fully dried and substantially commenced full pyrolysis, which with insufficient residence time after that may result in an incompletely processed piece at the end of the day.  So there is an optimum feedstock size suitable for optimal production rate, and and a maximum size for given future session duration. Pyrolysis rate in wood, limited by drying and conductivity of wood/char is roughly 1in of thickness per hour.  When only 1.5 hour left to run before quench, limit diameter to 2in dry material (1 h to process that and 30 min for exhaustion and combustion of residual pyrogas from the kiln).  Heat shield helps, including greatly in thermal comfort around an aggressively or optimally operated kiln.  

CFD on the Kon Tiki would be a fun project.  However, I did apply quite a bit of quantitative convection modeling including with heat shield.  A thing that must be tried is to put a 55g drum chimney above the KT, with no cone.   We did inverted cone and chimney, but I did not get around to chimney with no cone. The right height is above the dead zone which is above the hole of the vortex donut.  This allows room to enter biomass, and will drag all combustion gases around the dead zone into it, and enhance updraft, hence all vortex rates and stability. The inverted cone hood does not help (it can interfere with the vortex) and is not needed, as a virtual hood will form naturally. I realized immediately in 2014 the KT is a natural draft, cylindrically symmetric, air curtain burner, hence the earlier name of flame curtain kiln.

Looks like COVID will trap us in Australia, This will be the first time I have spent a year here since 1967.

Regards...Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:57 PM, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...> wrote:

Dear all, 
 
It is great to collect all these historical and technical information. What do you think about editing all this into a tBJ article?
 
Please find attached the Kon-Tiki emission paper, that Kelpie mentioned. Here we tested Kon-Tikis with different angels (between 45° to 70°), volume (0.2 to 1 m3) and materials (steel w./w.o. rim shield and hole in the ground). Essentially, the different forms, volumes, materials did not show significant differences. The most important variable is the care that the char-maker invests to maintain a continuous hot flame cap. Once the fire zone is not hot enough and smoke evolves, PM, CH4, CO emissions peak. Crucial are also the starting and the quenching phase. In the upcoming paper by Amonette et al. data will be presented that the biochar from Kon-Tiki type making can be considered at climate neutral for the first 20 to 30 years but not as a carbon sink due to the CH4 emissions. As shown in Cornelissen et al. the CH4-emissions are low compared to traditional char making or to wild fires but due to the high GWP of methane in the first 20 years, the biochar sink can only compensate the climate forcing of the methane during this first two decades. 
 
From experience, we use shallower Kon-Tiki (30-45°) for lower caloric and small sized biomass like straw, husks, cobs, leaves that pyrolyse very quickly; and deeper kilns (60 – 90°) for higher caloric but denser and more voluminous biomass like wood. 
 
Attached are some further publications dedicated to flame cap pyrolysis and characterization of the resulting chars.  
 
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 

Von: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>
Datum: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2020 um 05:40
An: Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Cc: Biochar Group <main@biochar.groups.io>, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology



Excellent questions Hugh. Emissions testing is the bottleneck we have to get through, if we want to 

get to the next level with flame cap devices. 

Jim Amonette has brought the methane issue to our attention.

So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.



The biggest innovation in Flame Caps so far has been Paul Taylor's idea of adding a heat shield. 

This has very fun effects on fluid and combustion dynamics and I wish we had a computational fluid dynamics

person who could look at this as an afterburner design problem. 



In the meantime we all continue to tinker.

Check out some nice video of flaming vortex loops in this short video I made:

https://youtu.be/oCQ6NoY2-Fg


Kelpie



On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...> wrote:


List, et al.



Since we are drilling down on the flame cap option, what is the consensus on emissions and levels of unburned VOC's, methane, etc. I am concerned there is a continuous region of quenching at the limits of the flames as they dart around, leaving carbon monoxide and perhaps forming PM2.5 via the Boudouard reaction, and possibly methane forming in the lower sections of the pyrolyzing biomass that does not combust in the flame cap due to methane's high auto-ignition temperature of above 550C. In addition, the issue of transient emissions during the addition of fresh biomass and the readily observed transient smoke escaping the flame cap.



If anyone has any data, please share it and the source with the group.



Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE



On Friday, October 9, 2020, 7:13:29 PM EDT, Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> wrote: 





This angle was certainly a question.  I always made the 1.2m diam kilns with 60 deg sides because with that angle you naturally maximally use a standard 1:2 format rectangular sheet.  The first KT was steeper.  The maximization of use is not quite unique for the 2 sheets needed to make bigger cones but I settled on a maximum volume achieved at about 64.5 deg and 1.65m diameter (for 1.2m x 2.4m sheets; 1.69 m diam, 67.6 deg for the 4% larger Chinese/European sheets).

The convection dynamics indicated that steep, tall sides maximized vortex strength and stability. This of course is aided by the sides being hotter, so a heat shield with proper spacing, computed from thickness of skin layers, helped in several ways.  Very shallow cones switch to a reverse vortex as you would expect with a flat sheet, as Josiah first did it, and this is the incorrect vortex shown in the Japanese drawings.  There is an intermediate shallow cone angle (<45 deg), where the two modes compete, so the vortex has no strength and stability and it is hard to maintain good fire with inimical feedstock. 

A couple of reasons for cone shape seemed to be easier to start with small fire, and quicker coverage and protection of biochar in early stages by more char.   However, understanding the vortex dynamics would be strong in a vertical wall, encouraged the simplification to rings.  These could be started well and quickly with air leakage around the bottom, which was blocked once the sides were hot and updraft strong, so the vortex kicked in.  The strong vortex drives air down to the pyrolysis front, determining the rate of pyrolysis, so has importance.  The big Mokis were truncated cones with open bottom as well, but were generally not deep. 

We were unsure of our success with the first running of the completely sealed bottom of the deep cone KT. In fact we did find it hard to start with a small fire in the bottom, and we learned to start a fire on top of biomass piled high up into the kiln to aid access of air to the initial fire. 

A new innovation in the KT was the drain at the bottom to allow easy draining and capture of the smoke water, which opened up the method of bottom quenching with nutrient solutions.  Naturally we experimented with leaving the small drain open for starting, closing it later, but surprisingly it did not help in natural draft, which I later realized was due to the convection flows creating a low pressure under the kiln.

Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:06 AM, "tmiles@..." <tmiles@...> wrote:

Interesting history. In my conversations with both Mokei and Dr. Ogawa in Japan in 2011 he emphasized the importance of the 60 degree angle of the sides of the kiln for optimizing char production. At the time Moki was offering kilns up to 10 feet in diameter but the ones we saw in use were more like 4-6 feet in diameter. 
 
Tom
 
 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> 
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 10:09 AM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 

Hi all: the origin for me of the flame cap was Tom Reed’s open pyramid pyrolysis, and his exemplification of it in “pinecone pyrolysis”, and of course the Jack Daniel’s method from the 1930s, which Peter Hirst presented in his chapter in the Biochar Revolution, 2010. 

The cone approach for me was specifically inspired by Tom Miles in his 2011 presentation referencing the Jan 2010 paper on the use of the Moki Kiln for making biochar for the “Cool Veges” initiative: A Rural Revitalization Scheme in Japan Utilizing Biochar and Eco-Branding: The Carbon Minus Project, Kameoka City. Steven R. McGreevy, Akira Shibata, 
and by this report using the Moki kiln.
Properties of Cinders from Red Pine, Black Locust and Henon Bamboo Inoue, Y ; Mogi, K ; Yoshizawa, S
APBC Kyoto 2011

That was reinforced by an article and blog by an Englishman who reported a technique of gradually pushing biomass into an open fire in a pit or trench.  In my presentations I included Tom Reeds pyramid pyrolysis and the Moki kiln to explain methods of making biochar distinct from the TLUD and the retort, and I started to design large transportable flame cap ring kilns, assembled in sections, for handling large burn piles on my property in N NSW.  Independently, in late 2012, Dolph, a neighbor here, reported making biochar in an open top, deep steel ring, which he called the Moxham.    http://biocharproject.org/charmasters-log/farm-scale-biochar/

In 2013 Kelpie also discovered and reported the gradual feeding technique for the cone kiln, and Stuart Mather drew attention to the Holy Mother Kiln that Dr Reddy reported in May 2011:  https://biocharkiln.blogspot.com   He called it a TLUD but you can start a flame cap ring in a “TLUD” mode, then convert to flame cap by closing off the primary air, thus preserving the created char and allowing more biomass to be added till the kiln is full of char.  

So 2013 was a big year for the convergent emergence of the flame cap method, I think for some of us triggered by Tom Miles presentation in 2011, but it might be considered a reprise of an earlier convergent emergence in 2009-11 of explorations by Josiah, Reddy, the Japanese, and the Englishman. It took till 2013/14 for a final breaking of the spell that making biochar required various complexities of vessels, pipes, seals, lids and chimneys.

This then was all brought to Switzerland in Jul 2014 and comingled with Hans-Peter’s provenance.  Kon Tiki was named as we first lit it because it was the first voyage of a large deep cone kiln, and we had no idea if it could work.  The name was confirmed when I discovered Kon-Tiki was a fire/sun god.  The observation of the inward rolling vortex in the Kon-Tiki (similar to back eddies familiar from rafting the Grand Canyon) were consistent with physics, and corrected the confusing unphysical convection arrows shown in the Japanese drawings.  This convection driven dynamic provided a natural draft system that conveyed a balance and sufficiency of air and mixing to both the pyrolysis and the gas combustion regions. Calculations of the convective flow velocities confirmed this, and also guided understanding of the impact of diameter and wall slope, verified by subsequent experiments. 

For me this was a renewal of a much earlier origin in 1980 during my 9 month’s of studies in India. There I acquired and brought back to the US an Agni Yoga pyramid, a small copper inverted pyramid, which is used to pyrolyse a mixture of cow dung, ghee and rice hulls or other biomass in a dawn and dusk ritual to heal earth and atmosphere (with the C/ash residue being valued for soil fertility). This inspired an interest in fire as an important element to manage, which manifested in starting a company in the 1980s, Micro-organic Fuel. This combined enzyme digested rice hulls or wheat straw, coal dust, and sodium silicate, and heated them to make low S synthetic fire logs or beautiful fire-proof wood-like building materials (depending on the amount of sodium silicate).  

The cone kiln or pyramid kiln (and open flame cap kiln in general), literalized the Agni ritual into a technology to physically heal earth and atmosphere, and I began calling my workshops such.  Hans-Peter and I discussed all this as we explored all variations of shapes and sizes, including heat shields and pits, during our first Kon-Tiki runs in Switzerland.

In Australia later in 2014 with Stephen Joseph we explored snuffing with a cover consisting of combinations of Fe rich clay, compost and cold charcoal, which in a reprise of Josiah’s discovery provided a baking for at least 4 days during which spatial and temporal temperature profiles measured in the range 250-450C. This produced a layer of biochar mineral complex to mix into the biochar.

Paul

On 10/9/20, 1:50 PM, "josiah hunt" <josiahhunt@...> wrote:

Hi Paul, here is a much better copy of that Poster from the Ames Conference 2010

<image.jpg>

On Oct 8, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Thank you all very much.   If you think of other info or people, please contact me and the others.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/> 
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>    Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: 
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/> 
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/> 
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies atwww.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <
schmidt@...> 
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 3:45 PM
To: josiah hunt <
josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 
Dear Paul and all, 
(adding Paul Taylor on cc)
 
I do not remember exactly if I found out about the “flame cap” / “flame curtain” principle through Kelpie’s backyard website or through Josiah’s pit demonstration. It was the one or the other but what is sure is that what we called the Kon-Tiki came after (in 2014) and was inspired by Kelpie, Josiah, Moki, Moxham, Wittman, Gilmore and the ancients. Paul (Taylor) and I described this “history” in our first article about the Kon-Tiki, the democratization of biochar production: 
https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39.
Our part in the story is mainly the popularization of the Kon-Tiki through articles and open access designs and operating instructions. This led to the nice success of Kon-Tiki type constructions in > 65 countries already in 2017.
 
In our article, Paul and I also explain why we choose the Kon-Tiki as a generic name for it and why it was important to use a catchy, generic name. Outside the US, and in a growing number of scientific publications, everybody uses the name Kon-Tiki which is very helpful for the scale-up and community exchange. 
 
Thanks to Kelpie and Josiah, who started this journey for all of us.
Cheers, Hans-Peter 
 
Von: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2020 um 20:04
An: "Anderson, Paul" <
psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>, Tom Miles <tmiles@...>, 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>, Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

Hello All, 
 
Covergent evolution.  
 
In August 2008, I first began efforts to intentionally produce biochar.  Guided by memories of bonfires on the beach, and the large bed of coals present in the waning hours, the first fires were on flat ground and built in a way that had a fast crescendo towards a peak point, then allowed to burn to coals before quenching.  When shaping the ground after each fire and before the next, ash and char would be scraped up, and a small depression was formed, this spurred the thinking that intentionally increasing that depression would make a better bed for the coals, and could give me better air control against the air intake that happens at the sides and bottoms and directly eats the building stock of char.  Deepening the depression quickly showed positive results.  Trial and error quickly resulted in a cone shaped pit in the ground with a high back on the lee side (when incline is present).  Several pits were used for commercial production of biochar for a period lasting about 5 years.  Several hundred tons of biochar were produced in this manner during that time. 
 
Quenching was performed with water in the first efforts.  Then it was discovered that a dirt cover, applied only at the end when all the wood has been carbonized, could snuff out the embers effectively and efficiently.  Dirt cover would be removed several days later during harvesting of char.  Metal roofing and several other materials were trialled for coverings.  Clay rich dirt was the favored cover material, and was re-used many times until it became more charcoal than clay, at which point it was tossed in the compost.  
 
NOTE: The soils where I was doing the majority of the commercial production fires were mostly volcanic cinder, which allowed a unique trick - the embers could gently and evenly breath just enough oxygen from the soil to keep the temperatures at or above 250C for days or even weeks if I were to let it. This allowed for a “baking” trick that is rarely repeatable.  
 
Attached is a poster I presented at the 2010 conference in Ames Iowa.  
 
- Josiah Hunt
808 936-3484

"Each generation is entitled to the interest on the natural capital, but the principal should be handed on unimpaired."
Canada’s Commission on Conservation (1915)

<image001.jpg>
 

On Oct 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:
 
Kelpie,    And adding Josiah Hunt to this group of recipients and Hugh because he has been following this for years.
 
It was as recent as 2012 for you  !!!   The concept came from Japan but not brought by the Japanese.   How did you come across the concept?   Was Josiah Hunt making char in pits back then?   Or when did he start and why?   
 
These stories of origins will be lost if we do not pull them together.
 
Because of you I made my first attempt with a half-barrel (longitudinal cut) in 2014, and I immediately want to the covered design with the portal in the side and chimneys, put in a provisional patent application and then in 2015 started showing the covered cavity kiln (which did not rotate to accomplish the mixing until the second half of 2019). 
 
Did Hans-Peter or Kathleen or anyone else do flame cap work then or earlier?
 
Paul 
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/> 
      Email:  psanders@...<mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: 
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/> 
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/> 
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies atwww.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...> 
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Cc: 
tmiles@...; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 
Looking at my photo records, I see that I finally figured out how to use the cone kiln in spring 2013
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4qpskMMRBg4V4M26
I built it the year before and it took me many tries to figure out how it worked. The pictures from Japan were all I had to go on.
I gave a flash talk on the cone kiln at the 2013 USBI conference in Amherst and after that, a lot of people started experimenting with cone kilns
I then switched to pyramid and cylinder shapes because the cone was much too difficult and expensive to fabricate. The other shapes work just as well if not better, especially the cylinder.  Dolph Cooke pioneered the cylinder kilns around the same time I made my cone kiln.
Thanks for being the historian here, Paul!
 
-Kelpie
 
-Kelpie
 
 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 9:09 AM Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...> wrote:


Tom,
 
Yes, roots of flame cap go back to Japan.    When did it get started, or when did you see him making biochar?
 
But sometimes there can be LOOOOONG lead up times.   Like hundreds of years for terra preta before it was becoming recognized in about 2007.    
 
Who “brought the Moki kiln to the attention of a wider audience”?   HPS and Kelpie were really early, right?   But when were their starts?    I hope they will  answer.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com<http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/> 
      Email:  psanders@...<mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: 
www.JuntosNFP.org<http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/> 
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com<http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/> 
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org<http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: 
tmiles@...<tmiles@...> 
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>; 'Kelpie Wilson' <kelpiew@...>; ''Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal' <schmidt@...>; 'Kathleen Draper' <draper@...>
Subject: RE: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report toabuse@...] 
Dr. Makato Ogawa, the Moki Kiln, Japan was the first one I saw making biochar.
 
Tom
 
 
From: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 9:47 PM
To: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Tom Miles - Oregon - listservs <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Subject: Origins of flame cap technology
 
Kelpie, Hans-Peter, Kathleen and Tom,
 
When and by whom did the flame cap technology begin and become recognized?   I also call  it “cavity kilns” of which there are open top and covered versions, but nothing on that occurred until 2014.   
 
We should eventually get such information recorded, but my need at the moment is to give credit to the  early innovators and the time period of origin, so general answers are fine.
 
I  hope to hear from you soon.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com<http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/> 
      Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: 
www.JuntosNFP.org<http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/> 
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com<http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/> 
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org<http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 


 

 


 

<image.jpg>


Re: Emissions of Nitrous Oxide, a Climate Super-Pollutant, Are Rising Fast on a Worst-Case Trajectory | InsideClimate News #climate #emissions #nitrousoxide

Harald Bier
 

… I did not mention that this has to be a complementary to good agricultural practices. Biochar should, of course, not be used to make up for bad mistakes, but it can do a lot of good. 
It is kind of like the creation of carbon sinks, which should not be seen as a substitute for emission reduction. 

Am 10.10.2020 um 20:14 schrieb Harald Bier <Harald.Bier@...>:

Dear Kim, 

I would say so. At least for us, this is one of our many arguments for the use of biochar in agriculture. If you’re interested, look at this: 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270822030_The_molar_H_COrg_ratio_of_biochar_is_a_key_factor_in_mitigating_N2O_emissions_from_soil

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969718339330 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/gcbb.12390

Best, Harald



Am 10.10.2020 um 17:07 schrieb Kim Chaffee <kim.chaffee2@...>:

All,
Does this new research report that exposes the major contribution of N2O from overuse of fertilizer present an opportunity for biochar?
Kim


https://insideclimatenews.org/news/07102020/nitrous-oxide-fertilizer-emissions-nature-study?utm_source=InsideClimate+News&utm_campaign=c580aa2b23-&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_29c928ffb5-c580aa2b23-327797005










Re: Emissions of Nitrous Oxide, a Climate Super-Pollutant, Are Rising Fast on a Worst-Case Trajectory | InsideClimate News #climate #emissions #nitrousoxide

Harald Bier
 

Am 10.10.2020 um 17:07 schrieb Kim Chaffee <kim.chaffee2@gmail.com>:

All,
Does this new research report that exposes the major contribution of N2O from overuse of fertilizer present an opportunity for biochar?
Kim


https://insideclimatenews.org/news/07102020/nitrous-oxide-fertilizer-emissions-nature-study?utm_source=InsideClimate+News&utm_campaign=c580aa2b23-&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_29c928ffb5-c580aa2b23-327797005





Re: Simple Biochar retort or oven -seeking designs or plans #technology #kiln #pah

Kim Chaffee
 

Kobus,

Also, do you have the particulate emissions in micrograms per cubic meter (μg/m3).  I assume the testing company didn’t measure PM2.5.  Thanks.

Kim


On Oct 10, 2020, at 1:34 PM, Kim Chaffee via groups.io <kim.chaffee2@...> wrote:

Hello Kobus,

Thank you for that very helpful data and video.  Do you have the gas pollutant results in parts per million or billion (ppm or ppb)?  This information would be helpful for scaling the results to other size kilns.  Thanks.

Kim Chaffee




On Oct 10, 2020, at 12:17 PM, Kobus Venter <kobus@...> wrote:

Hi all,

We have had the emissions emitted by VUTHISA kilns tested by AIRSHED. Results attached. Emission rates and factors were not available so use was made of emission factors for charcoal kilns as reported by Pennise et al (2001), primarily and US EPA AP42. 

Point Source Emissions ~  Maximum Hourly Release Rate

From left to right:

Pollutant Name|mg/Nm³|mg/Am³|Emissions kg/hr 

CH4 (a) 936|319|0,25
CO2 (a) 37816|12876|10,0
N2O(a) 3,2|1,07|0,0008
CO 4680|1593,00|1,25
NO 11,8|4,0|0,0031
NOx 13,2|4,5|0,0035
PM(b) 638|217,00|0,17
PAH(c) 0,07|0,023|0,000018
VOC 1943|662|0,52
(a) Greenhouse gas
(b) Minimum emission standard for PM, 50 mg/Nm3
(c) Minimum emission standard for PAH, 0.1 mg/Nm3

VUTHISA kilns uses after burning to reduce emissions. The US EPA states that afterburning is estimated to reduce PM, CO and VOC emissions by at least 80%. The above fugures includes the 80% reduction.

Thought that may be of interest.

Here is a video of the process: https://youtu.be/2xhhYFMOTps

Thx

Kobus








<Screenshot_20201010-173344-2.jpg>



Re: Simple Biochar retort or oven -seeking designs or plans #technology #kiln #pah

Kim Chaffee
 

Hello Kobus,

Thank you for that very helpful data and video.  Do you have the gas pollutant results in parts per million or billion (ppm or ppb)?  This information would be helpful for scaling the results to other size kilns.  Thanks.

Kim Chaffee




On Oct 10, 2020, at 12:17 PM, Kobus Venter <kobus@...> wrote:

Hi all,

We have had the emissions emitted by VUTHISA kilns tested by AIRSHED. Results attached. Emission rates and factors were not available so use was made of emission factors for charcoal kilns as reported by Pennise et al (2001), primarily and US EPA AP42. 

Point Source Emissions ~  Maximum Hourly Release Rate

From left to right:

Pollutant Name|mg/Nm³|mg/Am³|Emissions kg/hr 

CH4 (a) 936|319|0,25
CO2 (a) 37816|12876|10,0
N2O(a) 3,2|1,07|0,0008
CO 4680|1593,00|1,25
NO 11,8|4,0|0,0031
NOx 13,2|4,5|0,0035
PM(b) 638|217,00|0,17
PAH(c) 0,07|0,023|0,000018
VOC 1943|662|0,52
(a) Greenhouse gas
(b) Minimum emission standard for PM, 50 mg/Nm3
(c) Minimum emission standard for PAH, 0.1 mg/Nm3

VUTHISA kilns uses after burning to reduce emissions. The US EPA states that afterburning is estimated to reduce PM, CO and VOC emissions by at least 80%. The above fugures includes the 80% reduction.

Thought that may be of interest.

Here is a video of the process: https://youtu.be/2xhhYFMOTps

Thx

Kobus








<Screenshot_20201010-173344-2.jpg>


Simple Biochar retort or oven -seeking designs or plans #technology #kiln #pah

Kobus Venter
 

Hi all,

We have had the emissions emitted by VUTHISA kilns tested by AIRSHED. Results attached. Emission rates and factors were not available so use was made of emission factors for charcoal kilns as reported by Pennise et al (2001), primarily and US EPA AP42. 

Point Source Emissions ~  Maximum Hourly Release Rate

From left to right:

Pollutant Name|mg/Nm³|mg/Am³|Emissions kg/hr 

CH4 (a) 936|319|0,25
CO2 (a) 37816|12876|10,0
N2O(a) 3,2|1,07|0,0008
CO 4680|1593,00|1,25
NO 11,8|4,0|0,0031
NOx 13,2|4,5|0,0035
PM(b) 638|217,00|0,17
PAH(c) 0,07|0,023|0,000018
VOC 1943|662|0,52
(a) Greenhouse gas
(b) Minimum emission standard for PM, 50 mg/Nm3
(c) Minimum emission standard for PAH, 0.1 mg/Nm3

VUTHISA kilns uses after burning to reduce emissions. The US EPA states that afterburning is estimated to reduce PM, CO and VOC emissions by at least 80%. The above fugures includes the 80% reduction.

Thought that may be of interest.

Here is a video of the process: https://youtu.be/2xhhYFMOTps

Thx

Kobus









Re: FW: Origins of flame cap technology #flamecap #technology

Hugh McLaughlin
 

Kelpie notes: So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.

Where is this emission data available? - Hugh



On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 8:31:02 AM EDT, Paul S Anderson <psanders@...> wrote:


 

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 7:12 AM
To: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

The important thing about the Kon-Tiki is it is a self regulating natural draft system that provides mixing and a sufficiency of PA and SA in ratio.  More vortex, as is obtained with the stronger focused convection with a heat shield, drives more PA and SA. More PA drives faster pyrolysis, greater release of gases, but also hotter walls, and more heat and updraft above the kiln, all of which drive more convection, which drives more SA for complete combustion of more pyrogas, and so on.  

So unless there is a desire to limit pyrolysis rate, or T, or a safety issue, my usual instruction is to feed the flame, making it as big as you can grow it.  Throw the new material into flame. The generated heat will soon spread flame to other areas.  Feed too fast or too slow and flame will get less.  Flame is your friend in a flame cap kiln doing all the functions you need. Growing the flame is helpful when the kiln is being used in its function of turning a cleanup job into biochar efficiently. If the flame is too big (safety issue), then this is a good time to dump in that rotting log, damper/bigger biomass, or some fresher prunings, you would like gone.  The Amazonians search out certain rotting logs to smolder in their terra preta production fire if they wanted to make a terra preta for high fertility.  

Growing the flame does not influence much the HTT.  I always found a consistent temp in the pyrolysis zone, under the flame, which dropped in a regular way as the material was increasingly covered.  Slowing (and improving) pyrolysis and lowering T may be achieved by throwing in clay, or with water sprays. The caveat on growing the flame in order to maximize biomass processing rate is if you dump a big piece in it may get buried before it has fully dried and substantially commenced full pyrolysis, which with insufficient residence time after that may result in an incompletely processed piece at the end of the day.  So there is an optimum feedstock size suitable for optimal production rate, and and a maximum size for given future session duration. Pyrolysis rate in wood, limited by drying and conductivity of wood/char is roughly 1in of thickness per hour.  When only 1.5 hour left to run before quench, limit diameter to 2in dry material (1 h to process that and 30 min for exhaustion and combustion of residual pyrogas from the kiln).  Heat shield helps, including greatly in thermal comfort around an aggressively or optimally operated kiln.  

CFD on the Kon Tiki would be a fun project.  However, I did apply quite a bit of quantitative convection modeling including with heat shield.  A thing that must be tried is to put a 55g drum chimney above the KT, with no cone.   We did inverted cone and chimney, but I did not get around to chimney with no cone. The right height is above the dead zone which is above the hole of the vortex donut.  This allows room to enter biomass, and will drag all combustion gases around the dead zone into it, and enhance updraft, hence all vortex rates and stability. The inverted cone hood does not help (it can interfere with the vortex) and is not needed, as a virtual hood will form naturally. I realized immediately in 2014 the KT is a natural draft, cylindrically symmetric, air curtain burner, hence the earlier name of flame curtain kiln.

Looks like COVID will trap us in Australia, This will be the first time I have spent a year here since 1967.

Regards...Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:57 PM, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...> wrote:

Dear all,
 
It is great to collect all these historical and technical information. What do you think about editing all this into a tBJ article?
 
Please find attached the Kon-Tiki emission paper, that Kelpie mentioned. Here we tested Kon-Tikis with different angels (between 45° to 70°), volume (0.2 to 1 m3) and materials (steel w./w.o. rim shield and hole in the ground). Essentially, the different forms, volumes, materials did not show significant differences. The most important variable is the care that the char-maker invests to maintain a continuous hot flame cap. Once the fire zone is not hot enough and smoke evolves, PM, CH4, CO emissions peak. Crucial are also the starting and the quenching phase. In the upcoming paper by Amonette et al. data will be presented that the biochar from Kon-Tiki type making can be considered at climate neutral for the first 20 to 30 years but not as a carbon sink due to the CH4 emissions. As shown in Cornelissen et al. the CH4-emissions are low compared to traditional char making or to wild fires but due to the high GWP of methane in the first 20 years, the biochar sink can only compensate the climate forcing of the methane during this first two decades.
 
From experience, we use shallower Kon-Tiki (30-45°) for lower caloric and small sized biomass like straw, husks, cobs, leaves that pyrolyse very quickly; and deeper kilns (60 – 90°) for higher caloric but denser and more voluminous biomass like wood.
 
Attached are some further publications dedicated to flame cap pyrolysis and characterization of the resulting chars.  
 
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 

Von: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>
Datum: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2020 um 05:40
An: Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Cc: Biochar Group <main@biochar.groups.io>, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology



Excellent questions Hugh. Emissions testing is the bottleneck we have to get through, if we want to

get to the next level with flame cap devices.

Jim Amonette has brought the methane issue to our attention.

So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.



The biggest innovation in Flame Caps so far has been Paul Taylor's idea of adding a heat shield.

This has very fun effects on fluid and combustion dynamics and I wish we had a computational fluid dynamics

person who could look at this as an afterburner design problem.



In the meantime we all continue to tinker.

Check out some nice video of flaming vortex loops in this short video I made:

https://youtu.be/oCQ6NoY2-Fg


Kelpie



On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...> wrote:


List, et al.



Since we are drilling down on the flame cap option, what is the consensus on emissions and levels of unburned VOC's, methane, etc. I am concerned there is a continuous region of quenching at the limits of the flames as they dart around, leaving carbon monoxide and perhaps forming PM2.5 via the Boudouard reaction, and possibly methane forming in the lower sections of the pyrolyzing biomass that does not combust in the flame cap due to methane's high auto-ignition temperature of above 550C. In addition, the issue of transient emissions during the addition of fresh biomass and the readily observed transient smoke escaping the flame cap.



If anyone has any data, please share it and the source with the group.



Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE



On Friday, October 9, 2020, 7:13:29 PM EDT, Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> wrote:





This angle was certainly a question.  I always made the 1.2m diam kilns with 60 deg sides because with that angle you naturally maximally use a standard 1:2 format rectangular sheet.  The first KT was steeper.  The maximization of use is not quite unique for the 2 sheets needed to make bigger cones but I settled on a maximum volume achieved at about 64.5 deg and 1.65m diameter (for 1.2m x 2.4m sheets; 1.69 m diam, 67.6 deg for the 4% larger Chinese/European sheets).

The convection dynamics indicated that steep, tall sides maximized vortex strength and stability. This of course is aided by the sides being hotter, so a heat shield with proper spacing, computed from thickness of skin layers, helped in several ways.  Very shallow cones switch to a reverse vortex as you would expect with a flat sheet, as Josiah first did it, and this is the incorrect vortex shown in the Japanese drawings.  There is an intermediate shallow cone angle (<45 deg), where the two modes compete, so the vortex has no strength and stability and it is hard to maintain good fire with inimical feedstock.

A couple of reasons for cone shape seemed to be easier to start with small fire, and quicker coverage and protection of biochar in early stages by more char.   However, understanding the vortex dynamics would be strong in a vertical wall, encouraged the simplification to rings.  These could be started well and quickly with air leakage around the bottom, which was blocked once the sides were hot and updraft strong, so the vortex kicked in.  The strong vortex drives air down to the pyrolysis front, determining the rate of pyrolysis, so has importance.  The big Mokis were truncated cones with open bottom as well, but were generally not deep.

We were unsure of our success with the first running of the completely sealed bottom of the deep cone KT. In fact we did find it hard to start with a small fire in the bottom, and we learned to start a fire on top of biomass piled high up into the kiln to aid access of air to the initial fire.

A new innovation in the KT was the drain at the bottom to allow easy draining and capture of the smoke water, which opened up the method of bottom quenching with nutrient solutions.  Naturally we experimented with leaving the small drain open for starting, closing it later, but surprisingly it did not help in natural draft, which I later realized was due to the convection flows creating a low pressure under the kiln.

Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:06 AM, "tmiles@..." <tmiles@...> wrote:

Interesting history. In my conversations with both Mokei and Dr. Ogawa in Japan in 2011 he emphasized the importance of the 60 degree angle of the sides of the kiln for optimizing char production. At the time Moki was offering kilns up to 10 feet in diameter but the ones we saw in use were more like 4-6 feet in diameter.
 
Tom
 
 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 10:09 AM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 

Hi all: the origin for me of the flame cap was Tom Reed’s open pyramid pyrolysis, and his exemplification of it in “pinecone pyrolysis”, and of course the Jack Daniel’s method from the 1930s, which Peter Hirst presented in his chapter in the Biochar Revolution, 2010.

The cone approach for me was specifically inspired by Tom Miles in his 2011 presentation referencing the Jan 2010 paper on the use of the Moki Kiln for making biochar for the “Cool Veges” initiative: A Rural Revitalization Scheme in Japan Utilizing Biochar and Eco-Branding: The Carbon Minus Project, Kameoka City. Steven R. McGreevy, Akira Shibata,
and by this report using the Moki kiln.
Properties of Cinders from Red Pine, Black Locust and Henon Bamboo Inoue, Y ; Mogi, K ; Yoshizawa, S
APBC Kyoto 2011

That was reinforced by an article and blog by an Englishman who reported a technique of gradually pushing biomass into an open fire in a pit or trench.  In my presentations I included Tom Reeds pyramid pyrolysis and the Moki kiln to explain methods of making biochar distinct from the TLUD and the retort, and I started to design large transportable flame cap ring kilns, assembled in sections, for handling large burn piles on my property in N NSW.  Independently, in late 2012, Dolph, a neighbor here, reported making biochar in an open top, deep steel ring, which he called the Moxham.    http://biocharproject.org/charmasters-log/farm-scale-biochar/

In 2013 Kelpie also discovered and reported the gradual feeding technique for the cone kiln, and Stuart Mather drew attention to the Holy Mother Kiln that Dr Reddy reported in May 2011:  https://biocharkiln.blogspot.com   He called it a TLUD but you can start a flame cap ring in a “TLUD” mode, then convert to flame cap by closing off the primary air, thus preserving the created char and allowing more biomass to be added till the kiln is full of char.  

So 2013 was a big year for the convergent emergence of the flame cap method, I think for some of us triggered by Tom Miles presentation in 2011, but it might be considered a reprise of an earlier convergent emergence in 2009-11 of explorations by Josiah, Reddy, the Japanese, and the Englishman. It took till 2013/14 for a final breaking of the spell that making biochar required various complexities of vessels, pipes, seals, lids and chimneys.

This then was all brought to Switzerland in Jul 2014 and comingled with Hans-Peter’s provenance.  Kon Tiki was named as we first lit it because it was the first voyage of a large deep cone kiln, and we had no idea if it could work.  The name was confirmed when I discovered Kon-Tiki was a fire/sun god.  The observation of the inward rolling vortex in the Kon-Tiki (similar to back eddies familiar from rafting the Grand Canyon) were consistent with physics, and corrected the confusing unphysical convection arrows shown in the Japanese drawings.  This convection driven dynamic provided a natural draft system that conveyed a balance and sufficiency of air and mixing to both the pyrolysis and the gas combustion regions. Calculations of the convective flow velocities confirmed this, and also guided understanding of the impact of diameter and wall slope, verified by subsequent experiments.

For me this was a renewal of a much earlier origin in 1980 during my 9 month’s of studies in India. There I acquired and brought back to the US an Agni Yoga pyramid, a small copper inverted pyramid, which is used to pyrolyse a mixture of cow dung, ghee and rice hulls or other biomass in a dawn and dusk ritual to heal earth and atmosphere (with the C/ash residue being valued for soil fertility). This inspired an interest in fire as an important element to manage, which manifested in starting a company in the 1980s, Micro-organic Fuel. This combined enzyme digested rice hulls or wheat straw, coal dust, and sodium silicate, and heated them to make low S synthetic fire logs or beautiful fire-proof wood-like building materials (depending on the amount of sodium silicate).  

The cone kiln or pyramid kiln (and open flame cap kiln in general), literalized the Agni ritual into a technology to physically heal earth and atmosphere, and I began calling my workshops such.  Hans-Peter and I discussed all this as we explored all variations of shapes and sizes, including heat shields and pits, during our first Kon-Tiki runs in Switzerland.

In Australia later in 2014 with Stephen Joseph we explored snuffing with a cover consisting of combinations of Fe rich clay, compost and cold charcoal, which in a reprise of Josiah’s discovery provided a baking for at least 4 days during which spatial and temporal temperature profiles measured in the range 250-450C. This produced a layer of biochar mineral complex to mix into the biochar.

Paul

On 10/9/20, 1:50 PM, "josiah hunt" <josiahhunt@...> wrote:

Hi Paul, here is a much better copy of that Poster from the Ames Conference 2010

On Oct 8, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Thank you all very much.   If you think of other info or people, please contact me and the others.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <
schmidt@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 3:45 PM
To: josiah hunt <
josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dear Paul and all,
(adding Paul Taylor on cc)
 
I do not remember exactly if I found out about the “flame cap” / “flame curtain” principle through Kelpie’s backyard website or through Josiah’s pit demonstration. It was the one or the other but what is sure is that what we called the Kon-Tiki came after (in 2014) and was inspired by Kelpie, Josiah, Moki, Moxham, Wittman, Gilmore and the ancients. Paul (Taylor) and I described this “history” in our first article about the Kon-Tiki, the democratization of biochar production:
https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39.
Our part in the story is mainly the popularization of the Kon-Tiki through articles and open access designs and operating instructions. This led to the nice success of Kon-Tiki type constructions in > 65 countries already in 2017.
 
In our article, Paul and I also explain why we choose the Kon-Tiki as a generic name for it and why it was important to use a catchy, generic name. Outside the US, and in a growing number of scientific publications, everybody uses the name Kon-Tiki which is very helpful for the scale-up and community exchange.
 
Thanks to Kelpie and Josiah, who started this journey for all of us.
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 
Von: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2020 um 20:04
An: "Anderson, Paul" <
psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>, Tom Miles <tmiles@...>, 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>, Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

Hello All,
 
Covergent evolution.  
 
In August 2008, I first began efforts to intentionally produce biochar.  Guided by memories of bonfires on the beach, and the large bed of coals present in the waning hours, the first fires were on flat ground and built in a way that had a fast crescendo towards a peak point, then allowed to burn to coals before quenching.  When shaping the ground after each fire and before the next, ash and char would be scraped up, and a small depression was formed, this spurred the thinking that intentionally increasing that depression would make a better bed for the coals, and could give me better air control against the air intake that happens at the sides and bottoms and directly eats the building stock of char.  Deepening the depression quickly showed positive results.  Trial and error quickly resulted in a cone shaped pit in the ground with a high back on the lee side (when incline is present).  Several pits were used for commercial production of biochar for a period lasting about 5 years.  Several hundred tons of biochar were produced in this manner during that time.
 
Quenching was performed with water in the first efforts.  Then it was discovered that a dirt cover, applied only at the end when all the wood has been carbonized, could snuff out the embers effectively and efficiently.  Dirt cover would be removed several days later during harvesting of char.  Metal roofing and several other materials were trialled for coverings.  Clay rich dirt was the favored cover material, and was re-used many times until it became more charcoal than clay, at which point it was tossed in the compost.  
 
NOTE: The soils where I was doing the majority of the commercial production fires were mostly volcanic cinder, which allowed a unique trick - the embers could gently and evenly breath just enough oxygen from the soil to keep the temperatures at or above 250C for days or even weeks if I were to let it. This allowed for a “baking” trick that is rarely repeatable.  
 
Attached is a poster I presented at the 2010 conference in Ames Iowa.  
 
- Josiah Hunt
808 936-3484

"Each generation is entitled to the interest on the natural capital, but the principal should be handed on unimpaired."
Canada’s Commission on Conservation (1915)

<image001.jpg>
 

On Oct 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:
 
Kelpie,    And adding Josiah Hunt to this group of recipients and Hugh because he has been following this for years.
 
It was as recent as 2012 for you  !!!   The concept came from Japan but not brought by the Japanese.   How did you come across the concept?   Was Josiah Hunt making char in pits back then?   Or when did he start and why?   
 
These stories of origins will be lost if we do not pull them together.
 
Because of you I made my first attempt with a half-barrel (longitudinal cut) in 2014, and I immediately want to the covered design with the portal in the side and chimneys, put in a provisional patent application and then in 2015 started showing the covered cavity kiln (which did not rotate to accomplish the mixing until the second half of 2019).
 
Did Hans-Peter or Kathleen or anyone else do flame cap work then or earlier?
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Cc:
tmiles@...; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Looking at my photo records, I see that I finally figured out how to use the cone kiln in spring 2013
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4qpskMMRBg4V4M26
I built it the year before and it took me many tries to figure out how it worked. The pictures from Japan were all I had to go on.
I gave a flash talk on the cone kiln at the 2013 USBI conference in Amherst and after that, a lot of people started experimenting with cone kilns
I then switched to pyramid and cylinder shapes because the cone was much too difficult and expensive to fabricate. The other shapes work just as well if not better, especially the cylinder.  Dolph Cooke pioneered the cylinder kilns around the same time I made my cone kiln.
Thanks for being the historian here, Paul!
 
-Kelpie
 
-Kelpie
 
 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 9:09 AM Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...> wrote:


Tom,
 
Yes, roots of flame cap go back to Japan.    When did it get started, or when did you see him making biochar?
 
But sometimes there can be LOOOOONG lead up times.   Like hundreds of years for terra preta before it was becoming recognized in about 2007.    
 
Who “brought the Moki kiln to the attention of a wider audience”?   HPS and Kelpie were really early, right?   But when were their starts?    I hope they will  answer.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From:
tmiles@... <tmiles@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>; 'Kelpie Wilson' <kelpiew@...>; ''Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal' <schmidt@...>; 'Kathleen Draper' <draper@...>
Subject: RE: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dr. Makato Ogawa, the Moki Kiln, Japan was the first one I saw making biochar.
 
Tom
 
 
From: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 9:47 PM
To: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Tom Miles - Oregon - listservs <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Subject: Origins of flame cap technology
 
Kelpie, Hans-Peter, Kathleen and Tom,
 
When and by whom did the flame cap technology begin and become recognized?   I also call  it “cavity kilns” of which there are open top and covered versions, but nothing on that occurred until 2014.   
 
We should eventually get such information recorded, but my need at the moment is to give credit to the  early innovators and the time period of origin, so general answers are fine.
 
I  hope to hear from you soon.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 


 

 


 


Emissions of Nitrous Oxide, a Climate Super-Pollutant, Are Rising Fast on a Worst-Case Trajectory | InsideClimate News #climate #emissions #nitrousoxide

Kim Chaffee
 

All,
Does this new research report that exposes the major contribution of N2O from overuse of fertilizer present an opportunity for biochar?
Kim


https://insideclimatenews.org/news/07102020/nitrous-oxide-fertilizer-emissions-nature-study?utm_source=InsideClimate+News&utm_campaign=c580aa2b23-&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_29c928ffb5-c580aa2b23-327797005


Re: Revitalising oases through agroforestry and biochar #agroforestry #biosolids

Frank Strie
 

Does the world community have problems to apply common sense?

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.daserste.de/information/wirtschaft-boerse/plusminus/sendung/sendung-vom-07-10-2020-klaerschlamm-100.html&prev=search&pto=aue


The images in this latest story about questioning the usefulness of very nutrient  rich carbonised sewage sludge / biosolids.
Look at the trees growing in the medium in these BIGBAGS without irrigation and without soil. …
Time will tell
Frank

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 4:36 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Revitalising oases through agroforestry and biochar

 

Hi Frank, good to hear your' getting out there and talking to people, haven’t we all done our share of that!

- has to be done though.

 

Nice that you liked that book of Kathleen and Albert,  but I don’t understand why you think I need to read it, as I have been developing my understanding of Charcoal and Biochar since 2007, planting thousands of trees with charcoal in the potting mix in 2009, and am pretty well much up to speed on new developments.

 

This doesn’t change the fact that there is, and not by any means just me that is aware of it, a problem with People selling charcoal as Biochar and thousands of academics writing critical articles about biochar whilst using charcoal labelled as biochar.

I notice you have totally failed to contribute to that discussion, but instead used the space to chastise me for daring to call for change.

 

I have often observed that people turn to insults when they have run out of truth, and suggest you may be skating close to that line.

 

Or perhaps you are just saying ‘look at me I’m Frank, aren’t I clever?

 

Wel,l nothing wrong with that, over the last 5 years I have written a submission to the Finkel Report, - Mainly on South Australia, and seeing my ideas used and working there, and on that was asked to write another  detailed submission for the National Energy Guarantee, the said submission being rejected out of hand by mr Friedenburg, but as I had posted it on an American site, I was asked by the AEMO if they could use my vision for a Renewable Energy Australia as part of their future plan, and I note it has now been taken up by the Labor party as their central plank, - I feel very good about these things, and currently I am building a new first response fire truck, and I have no doubt that they will being built all over the world in a few years time, so I am a very creative designer, and very busy at 71 and still very commited to Biochar, - if it is indeed biochar.

 

Perhaps you could go back and see exactly what points I am making on that subject rather than trying to kill discussion on it by put down suggestions to me.

 

From my discussion with you I understood you add other materials to the charcoal to make your Biochar, isn’t that so?

 

Cheers,

Geoff.

 

On 9 Oct 2020, at 8:55 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

Hello Geoff  T., 
Tomorrow morning Karin &  I will again answer inquiries and questions about the complex Biochar topic at the Launceston Farmers Harvest Market and we will sell again bags of FRANK’S CHAR and plants, seedlings, cuttings  growing in our Biochar:
https://harvestmarket.org.au/stallholder/terra-preta-developments . We also offer information about our currently 4 models of KON-TIKI-TAS Biochar Kilns and other technologies to co-generate Biochar, Thermal Energy, Power and/ or Bio-Methane,  a colorless, odorless flammable gas which is the main constituent of natural gas. 

Having followed this discussion trail, to be as frank as I can be, it is fascinating how over the last 5+years or so people have responded and learned and shared and purchased more and more of what is on offer. The great book by Kathleen Draper and Albert Bates about Carbon Cascades outlines the scope of Pyrogenic carbon Capture and Sequestration  
https://www.chelseagreen.com/2019/carbon-cascades and  https://www.chelseagreen.com/2019/how-to-make-biochar .
So, in other words Geoff I like to suggest it is high time to get a copy, and if / when you know all, recommend it to others who struggle to come to grips with the benefits of Biochar! 
Relax and get into action – show what good quality Biochar is all about rather than to bombard us here with your (outdated) agenda of interpretations what is and not is Biochar or Charcoal.  It’s time!

Thank you  Kathleen and hello Harald,
It is time to rest this topic, please – there is plenty of information out there and a little thinking should provide the answers to anyone genuinely interested to “get it”.
There is so much to do and I am / we are on to it since 2007. 
My/ our business is trading as ‘Terra Preta Developments’, obviously is about developing black soils, and much more.
I use the term Biochar when I have ‘Pyrogenic Carbon’ that is used  to foster life. 
Other terms I often use are more task specific be that FeedChar , FiltrationChar, CharAsphalt, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars, be they magnetic or made with specific characteristics. 
Charcoal is used for cooking, heating etc. thus carbon is oxidised with oxygen to Co2 and the ash that is made up of the very minerals that once entered the plant / tree in a liquid form through the feeder roots.

There is lots to do, so lets explore the opportunities!
Frank


 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Harald Bier
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 8:16 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Revitalising oases through agroforestry and biochar

 

Thanks Kathleen, 

 

I was a bit confused with regards to the comments before and not sure if I’m totally right here. 

We are also talking about a substance here in Europe, not about a utilization or a mix, nor of Terra Preta, which is something totally different from charred biomass. 

We just used biochar as an amendment in asphalt. Not so much biology in there, but charred material made from BIOmass. 

 

Best, Harald (EBI)

 




Am 08.10.2020 um 23:02 schrieb Kathleen Draper <biocharro2@...>:

 

Geoff – 

I specifically said I was speaking ONLY for myself and not on behalf of IBI, so I am not sure why you refashioned my words nor why you attribute the naming of biochar to an American sales gimmick. There is a history to how the term biochar came to be which came about before my time in the industry so I will let others tell that tale. But it was an international discussion which included scientist and industry folks. There is also an IBI biochar standard and several EBC standards for what biochar is and none of them include ‘bio’ by your definition.  These standards are public knowledge, can be found on-line and are what is being used to determine what can be labeled as biochar and what can qualify for carbon removal credits. Most of us realize that biochar is not terra preta, but rather just one component of it. 

 

This recurring conversation always seems to go round and round and to be honest I don’t really see the point of constantly relitigating it. We have, in my opinion, much higher priorities to address if we want to seriously rebalance carbon.  

 

Kathleen (not Katherin)

 

TO BE CLEAR: WHENEVER I POST ON THIS FORUM IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION, NOT ON BEHALF OF IBI, so please do not interpret it as such. 

 

 

 


FW: Origins of flame cap technology #flamecap #technology

Paul S Anderson
 

 

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 7:12 AM
To: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

The important thing about the Kon-Tiki is it is a self regulating natural draft system that provides mixing and a sufficiency of PA and SA in ratio.  More vortex, as is obtained with the stronger focused convection with a heat shield, drives more PA and SA. More PA drives faster pyrolysis, greater release of gases, but also hotter walls, and more heat and updraft above the kiln, all of which drive more convection, which drives more SA for complete combustion of more pyrogas, and so on.  

So unless there is a desire to limit pyrolysis rate, or T, or a safety issue, my usual instruction is to feed the flame, making it as big as you can grow it.  Throw the new material into flame. The generated heat will soon spread flame to other areas.  Feed too fast or too slow and flame will get less.  Flame is your friend in a flame cap kiln doing all the functions you need. Growing the flame is helpful when the kiln is being used in its function of turning a cleanup job into biochar efficiently. If the flame is too big (safety issue), then this is a good time to dump in that rotting log, damper/bigger biomass, or some fresher prunings, you would like gone.  The Amazonians search out certain rotting logs to smolder in their terra preta production fire if they wanted to make a terra preta for high fertility.  

Growing the flame does not influence much the HTT.  I always found a consistent temp in the pyrolysis zone, under the flame, which dropped in a regular way as the material was increasingly covered.  Slowing (and improving) pyrolysis and lowering T may be achieved by throwing in clay, or with water sprays. The caveat on growing the flame in order to maximize biomass processing rate is if you dump a big piece in it may get buried before it has fully dried and substantially commenced full pyrolysis, which with insufficient residence time after that may result in an incompletely processed piece at the end of the day.  So there is an optimum feedstock size suitable for optimal production rate, and and a maximum size for given future session duration. Pyrolysis rate in wood, limited by drying and conductivity of wood/char is roughly 1in of thickness per hour.  When only 1.5 hour left to run before quench, limit diameter to 2in dry material (1 h to process that and 30 min for exhaustion and combustion of residual pyrogas from the kiln).  Heat shield helps, including greatly in thermal comfort around an aggressively or optimally operated kiln.  

CFD on the Kon Tiki would be a fun project.  However, I did apply quite a bit of quantitative convection modeling including with heat shield.  A thing that must be tried is to put a 55g drum chimney above the KT, with no cone.   We did inverted cone and chimney, but I did not get around to chimney with no cone. The right height is above the dead zone which is above the hole of the vortex donut.  This allows room to enter biomass, and will drag all combustion gases around the dead zone into it, and enhance updraft, hence all vortex rates and stability. The inverted cone hood does not help (it can interfere with the vortex) and is not needed, as a virtual hood will form naturally. I realized immediately in 2014 the KT is a natural draft, cylindrically symmetric, air curtain burner, hence the earlier name of flame curtain kiln.

Looks like COVID will trap us in Australia, This will be the first time I have spent a year here since 1967.

Regards...Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:57 PM, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...> wrote:

Dear all,
 
It is great to collect all these historical and technical information. What do you think about editing all this into a tBJ article?
 
Please find attached the Kon-Tiki emission paper, that Kelpie mentioned. Here we tested Kon-Tikis with different angels (between 45° to 70°), volume (0.2 to 1 m3) and materials (steel w./w.o. rim shield and hole in the ground). Essentially, the different forms, volumes, materials did not show significant differences. The most important variable is the care that the char-maker invests to maintain a continuous hot flame cap. Once the fire zone is not hot enough and smoke evolves, PM, CH4, CO emissions peak. Crucial are also the starting and the quenching phase. In the upcoming paper by Amonette et al. data will be presented that the biochar from Kon-Tiki type making can be considered at climate neutral for the first 20 to 30 years but not as a carbon sink due to the CH4 emissions. As shown in Cornelissen et al. the CH4-emissions are low compared to traditional char making or to wild fires but due to the high GWP of methane in the first 20 years, the biochar sink can only compensate the climate forcing of the methane during this first two decades.
 
From experience, we use shallower Kon-Tiki (30-45°) for lower caloric and small sized biomass like straw, husks, cobs, leaves that pyrolyse very quickly; and deeper kilns (60 – 90°) for higher caloric but denser and more voluminous biomass like wood.
 
Attached are some further publications dedicated to flame cap pyrolysis and characterization of the resulting chars.  
 
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 

Von: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>
Datum: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2020 um 05:40
An: Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Cc: Biochar Group <main@biochar.groups.io>, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology



Excellent questions Hugh. Emissions testing is the bottleneck we have to get through, if we want to

get to the next level with flame cap devices.

Jim Amonette has brought the methane issue to our attention.

So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.



The biggest innovation in Flame Caps so far has been Paul Taylor's idea of adding a heat shield.

This has very fun effects on fluid and combustion dynamics and I wish we had a computational fluid dynamics

person who could look at this as an afterburner design problem.



In the meantime we all continue to tinker.

Check out some nice video of flaming vortex loops in this short video I made:

https://youtu.be/oCQ6NoY2-Fg


Kelpie



On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...> wrote:


List, et al.



Since we are drilling down on the flame cap option, what is the consensus on emissions and levels of unburned VOC's, methane, etc. I am concerned there is a continuous region of quenching at the limits of the flames as they dart around, leaving carbon monoxide and perhaps forming PM2.5 via the Boudouard reaction, and possibly methane forming in the lower sections of the pyrolyzing biomass that does not combust in the flame cap due to methane's high auto-ignition temperature of above 550C. In addition, the issue of transient emissions during the addition of fresh biomass and the readily observed transient smoke escaping the flame cap.



If anyone has any data, please share it and the source with the group.



Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE



On Friday, October 9, 2020, 7:13:29 PM EDT, Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> wrote:





This angle was certainly a question.  I always made the 1.2m diam kilns with 60 deg sides because with that angle you naturally maximally use a standard 1:2 format rectangular sheet.  The first KT was steeper.  The maximization of use is not quite unique for the 2 sheets needed to make bigger cones but I settled on a maximum volume achieved at about 64.5 deg and 1.65m diameter (for 1.2m x 2.4m sheets; 1.69 m diam, 67.6 deg for the 4% larger Chinese/European sheets).

The convection dynamics indicated that steep, tall sides maximized vortex strength and stability. This of course is aided by the sides being hotter, so a heat shield with proper spacing, computed from thickness of skin layers, helped in several ways.  Very shallow cones switch to a reverse vortex as you would expect with a flat sheet, as Josiah first did it, and this is the incorrect vortex shown in the Japanese drawings.  There is an intermediate shallow cone angle (<45 deg), where the two modes compete, so the vortex has no strength and stability and it is hard to maintain good fire with inimical feedstock.

A couple of reasons for cone shape seemed to be easier to start with small fire, and quicker coverage and protection of biochar in early stages by more char.   However, understanding the vortex dynamics would be strong in a vertical wall, encouraged the simplification to rings.  These could be started well and quickly with air leakage around the bottom, which was blocked once the sides were hot and updraft strong, so the vortex kicked in.  The strong vortex drives air down to the pyrolysis front, determining the rate of pyrolysis, so has importance.  The big Mokis were truncated cones with open bottom as well, but were generally not deep.

We were unsure of our success with the first running of the completely sealed bottom of the deep cone KT. In fact we did find it hard to start with a small fire in the bottom, and we learned to start a fire on top of biomass piled high up into the kiln to aid access of air to the initial fire.

A new innovation in the KT was the drain at the bottom to allow easy draining and capture of the smoke water, which opened up the method of bottom quenching with nutrient solutions.  Naturally we experimented with leaving the small drain open for starting, closing it later, but surprisingly it did not help in natural draft, which I later realized was due to the convection flows creating a low pressure under the kiln.

Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:06 AM, "tmiles@..." <tmiles@...> wrote:

Interesting history. In my conversations with both Mokei and Dr. Ogawa in Japan in 2011 he emphasized the importance of the 60 degree angle of the sides of the kiln for optimizing char production. At the time Moki was offering kilns up to 10 feet in diameter but the ones we saw in use were more like 4-6 feet in diameter.
 
Tom
 
 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 10:09 AM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 

Hi all: the origin for me of the flame cap was Tom Reed’s open pyramid pyrolysis, and his exemplification of it in “pinecone pyrolysis”, and of course the Jack Daniel’s method from the 1930s, which Peter Hirst presented in his chapter in the Biochar Revolution, 2010.

The cone approach for me was specifically inspired by Tom Miles in his 2011 presentation referencing the Jan 2010 paper on the use of the Moki Kiln for making biochar for the “Cool Veges” initiative: A Rural Revitalization Scheme in Japan Utilizing Biochar and Eco-Branding: The Carbon Minus Project, Kameoka City. Steven R. McGreevy, Akira Shibata,
and by this report using the Moki kiln.
Properties of Cinders from Red Pine, Black Locust and Henon Bamboo Inoue, Y ; Mogi, K ; Yoshizawa, S
APBC Kyoto 2011

That was reinforced by an article and blog by an Englishman who reported a technique of gradually pushing biomass into an open fire in a pit or trench.  In my presentations I included Tom Reeds pyramid pyrolysis and the Moki kiln to explain methods of making biochar distinct from the TLUD and the retort, and I started to design large transportable flame cap ring kilns, assembled in sections, for handling large burn piles on my property in N NSW.  Independently, in late 2012, Dolph, a neighbor here, reported making biochar in an open top, deep steel ring, which he called the Moxham.    http://biocharproject.org/charmasters-log/farm-scale-biochar/

In 2013 Kelpie also discovered and reported the gradual feeding technique for the cone kiln, and Stuart Mather drew attention to the Holy Mother Kiln that Dr Reddy reported in May 2011:  https://biocharkiln.blogspot.com   He called it a TLUD but you can start a flame cap ring in a “TLUD” mode, then convert to flame cap by closing off the primary air, thus preserving the created char and allowing more biomass to be added till the kiln is full of char.  

So 2013 was a big year for the convergent emergence of the flame cap method, I think for some of us triggered by Tom Miles presentation in 2011, but it might be considered a reprise of an earlier convergent emergence in 2009-11 of explorations by Josiah, Reddy, the Japanese, and the Englishman. It took till 2013/14 for a final breaking of the spell that making biochar required various complexities of vessels, pipes, seals, lids and chimneys.

This then was all brought to Switzerland in Jul 2014 and comingled with Hans-Peter’s provenance.  Kon Tiki was named as we first lit it because it was the first voyage of a large deep cone kiln, and we had no idea if it could work.  The name was confirmed when I discovered Kon-Tiki was a fire/sun god.  The observation of the inward rolling vortex in the Kon-Tiki (similar to back eddies familiar from rafting the Grand Canyon) were consistent with physics, and corrected the confusing unphysical convection arrows shown in the Japanese drawings.  This convection driven dynamic provided a natural draft system that conveyed a balance and sufficiency of air and mixing to both the pyrolysis and the gas combustion regions. Calculations of the convective flow velocities confirmed this, and also guided understanding of the impact of diameter and wall slope, verified by subsequent experiments.

For me this was a renewal of a much earlier origin in 1980 during my 9 month’s of studies in India. There I acquired and brought back to the US an Agni Yoga pyramid, a small copper inverted pyramid, which is used to pyrolyse a mixture of cow dung, ghee and rice hulls or other biomass in a dawn and dusk ritual to heal earth and atmosphere (with the C/ash residue being valued for soil fertility). This inspired an interest in fire as an important element to manage, which manifested in starting a company in the 1980s, Micro-organic Fuel. This combined enzyme digested rice hulls or wheat straw, coal dust, and sodium silicate, and heated them to make low S synthetic fire logs or beautiful fire-proof wood-like building materials (depending on the amount of sodium silicate).  

The cone kiln or pyramid kiln (and open flame cap kiln in general), literalized the Agni ritual into a technology to physically heal earth and atmosphere, and I began calling my workshops such.  Hans-Peter and I discussed all this as we explored all variations of shapes and sizes, including heat shields and pits, during our first Kon-Tiki runs in Switzerland.

In Australia later in 2014 with Stephen Joseph we explored snuffing with a cover consisting of combinations of Fe rich clay, compost and cold charcoal, which in a reprise of Josiah’s discovery provided a baking for at least 4 days during which spatial and temporal temperature profiles measured in the range 250-450C. This produced a layer of biochar mineral complex to mix into the biochar.

Paul

On 10/9/20, 1:50 PM, "josiah hunt" <josiahhunt@...> wrote:

Hi Paul, here is a much better copy of that Poster from the Ames Conference 2010

On Oct 8, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Thank you all very much.   If you think of other info or people, please contact me and the others.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <
schmidt@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 3:45 PM
To: josiah hunt <
josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dear Paul and all,
(adding Paul Taylor on cc)
 
I do not remember exactly if I found out about the “flame cap” / “flame curtain” principle through Kelpie’s backyard website or through Josiah’s pit demonstration. It was the one or the other but what is sure is that what we called the Kon-Tiki came after (in 2014) and was inspired by Kelpie, Josiah, Moki, Moxham, Wittman, Gilmore and the ancients. Paul (Taylor) and I described this “history” in our first article about the Kon-Tiki, the democratization of biochar production:
https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39.
Our part in the story is mainly the popularization of the Kon-Tiki through articles and open access designs and operating instructions. This led to the nice success of Kon-Tiki type constructions in > 65 countries already in 2017.
 
In our article, Paul and I also explain why we choose the Kon-Tiki as a generic name for it and why it was important to use a catchy, generic name. Outside the US, and in a growing number of scientific publications, everybody uses the name Kon-Tiki which is very helpful for the scale-up and community exchange.
 
Thanks to Kelpie and Josiah, who started this journey for all of us.
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 
Von: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2020 um 20:04
An: "Anderson, Paul" <
psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>, Tom Miles <tmiles@...>, 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>, Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

Hello All,
 
Covergent evolution.  
 
In August 2008, I first began efforts to intentionally produce biochar.  Guided by memories of bonfires on the beach, and the large bed of coals present in the waning hours, the first fires were on flat ground and built in a way that had a fast crescendo towards a peak point, then allowed to burn to coals before quenching.  When shaping the ground after each fire and before the next, ash and char would be scraped up, and a small depression was formed, this spurred the thinking that intentionally increasing that depression would make a better bed for the coals, and could give me better air control against the air intake that happens at the sides and bottoms and directly eats the building stock of char.  Deepening the depression quickly showed positive results.  Trial and error quickly resulted in a cone shaped pit in the ground with a high back on the lee side (when incline is present).  Several pits were used for commercial production of biochar for a period lasting about 5 years.  Several hundred tons of biochar were produced in this manner during that time.
 
Quenching was performed with water in the first efforts.  Then it was discovered that a dirt cover, applied only at the end when all the wood has been carbonized, could snuff out the embers effectively and efficiently.  Dirt cover would be removed several days later during harvesting of char.  Metal roofing and several other materials were trialled for coverings.  Clay rich dirt was the favored cover material, and was re-used many times until it became more charcoal than clay, at which point it was tossed in the compost.  
 
NOTE: The soils where I was doing the majority of the commercial production fires were mostly volcanic cinder, which allowed a unique trick - the embers could gently and evenly breath just enough oxygen from the soil to keep the temperatures at or above 250C for days or even weeks if I were to let it. This allowed for a “baking” trick that is rarely repeatable.  
 
Attached is a poster I presented at the 2010 conference in Ames Iowa.  
 
- Josiah Hunt
808 936-3484

"Each generation is entitled to the interest on the natural capital, but the principal should be handed on unimpaired."
Canada’s Commission on Conservation (1915)

<image001.jpg>
 

On Oct 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:
 
Kelpie,    And adding Josiah Hunt to this group of recipients and Hugh because he has been following this for years.
 
It was as recent as 2012 for you  !!!   The concept came from Japan but not brought by the Japanese.   How did you come across the concept?   Was Josiah Hunt making char in pits back then?   Or when did he start and why?   
 
These stories of origins will be lost if we do not pull them together.
 
Because of you I made my first attempt with a half-barrel (longitudinal cut) in 2014, and I immediately want to the covered design with the portal in the side and chimneys, put in a provisional patent application and then in 2015 started showing the covered cavity kiln (which did not rotate to accomplish the mixing until the second half of 2019).
 
Did Hans-Peter or Kathleen or anyone else do flame cap work then or earlier?
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Cc:
tmiles@...; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Looking at my photo records, I see that I finally figured out how to use the cone kiln in spring 2013
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4qpskMMRBg4V4M26
I built it the year before and it took me many tries to figure out how it worked. The pictures from Japan were all I had to go on.
I gave a flash talk on the cone kiln at the 2013 USBI conference in Amherst and after that, a lot of people started experimenting with cone kilns
I then switched to pyramid and cylinder shapes because the cone was much too difficult and expensive to fabricate. The other shapes work just as well if not better, especially the cylinder.  Dolph Cooke pioneered the cylinder kilns around the same time I made my cone kiln.
Thanks for being the historian here, Paul!
 
-Kelpie
 
-Kelpie
 
 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 9:09 AM Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...> wrote:


Tom,
 
Yes, roots of flame cap go back to Japan.    When did it get started, or when did you see him making biochar?
 
But sometimes there can be LOOOOONG lead up times.   Like hundreds of years for terra preta before it was becoming recognized in about 2007.    
 
Who “brought the Moki kiln to the attention of a wider audience”?   HPS and Kelpie were really early, right?   But when were their starts?    I hope they will  answer.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>     Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From:
tmiles@... <tmiles@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>; 'Kelpie Wilson' <kelpiew@...>; ''Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal' <schmidt@...>; 'Kathleen Draper' <draper@...>
Subject: RE: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dr. Makato Ogawa, the Moki Kiln, Japan was the first one I saw making biochar.
 
Tom
 
 
From: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 9:47 PM
To: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Tom Miles - Oregon - listservs <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Subject: Origins of flame cap technology
 
Kelpie, Hans-Peter, Kathleen and Tom,
 
When and by whom did the flame cap technology begin and become recognized?   I also call  it “cavity kilns” of which there are open top and covered versions, but nothing on that occurred until 2014.   
 
We should eventually get such information recorded, but my need at the moment is to give credit to the  early innovators and the time period of origin, so general answers are fine.
 
I  hope to hear from you soon.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
      Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 


 

 


 


Re: Origins of flame cap technology #flamecap #technology

Paul S Anderson
 

Dear Biochar Discussion Group,

 

Some of the  messages(such as the one below)  about this Subject have not gone to the full Discussion Group.   I have collected them in to one Word file but without any editing.  If someone volunteers to write the Origins story, I can send the full file.   (I am doing  other writings at present, so not me for this job.)

 

The flame cap discussion will continue on the Discussion group.

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:57 AM
To: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

Dear all,

 

It is great to collect all these historical and technical information. What do you think about editing all this into a tBJ article?

 

Please find attached the Kon-Tiki emission paper, that Kelpie mentioned. Here we tested Kon-Tikis with different angels (between 45° to 70°), volume (0.2 to 1 m3) and materials (steel w./w.o. rim shield and hole in the ground). Essentially, the different forms, volumes, materials did not show significant differences. The most important variable is the care that the char-maker invests to maintain a continuous hot flame cap. Once the fire zone is not hot enough and smoke evolves, PM, CH4, CO emissions peak. Crucial are also the starting and the quenching phase. In the upcoming paper by Amonette et al. data will be presented that the biochar from Kon-Tiki type making can be considered at climate neutral for the first 20 to 30 years but not as a carbon sink due to the CH4 emissions. As shown in Cornelissen et al. the CH4-emissions are low compared to traditional char making or to wild fires but due to the high GWP of methane in the first 20 years, the biochar sink can only compensate the climate forcing of the methane during this first two decades.

 

From experience, we use shallower Kon-Tiki (30-45°) for lower caloric and small sized biomass like straw, husks, cobs, leaves that pyrolyse very quickly; and deeper kilns (60 – 90°) for higher caloric but denser and more voluminous biomass like wood.

 

Attached are some further publications dedicated to flame cap pyrolysis and characterization of the resulting chars.  

 

Cheers, Hans-Peter

 

Von: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>
Datum: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2020 um 05:40
An: Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Cc: Biochar Group <main@biochar.groups.io>, "Schmidt, Hans-Peter" <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

 

Excellent questions Hugh. Emissions testing is the bottleneck we have to get through, if we want to 

get to the next level with flame cap devices. 

Jim Amonette has brought the methane issue to our attention.

So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.

 

The biggest innovation in Flame Caps so far has been Paul Taylor's idea of adding a heat shield. 

This has very fun effects on fluid and combustion dynamics and I wish we had a computational fluid dynamics

person who could look at this as an afterburner design problem. 

 

In the meantime we all continue to tinker.

Check out some nice video of flaming vortex loops in this short video I made:

 

Kelpie

 

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...> wrote:

List, et al.

 

Since we are drilling down on the flame cap option, what is the consensus on emissions and levels of unburned VOC's, methane, etc. I am concerned there is a continuous region of quenching at the limits of the flames as they dart around, leaving carbon monoxide and perhaps forming PM2.5 via the Boudouard reaction, and possibly methane forming in the lower sections of the pyrolyzing biomass that does not combust in the flame cap due to methane's high auto-ignition temperature of above 550C. In addition, the issue of transient emissions during the addition of fresh biomass and the readily observed transient smoke escaping the flame cap.

 

If anyone has any data, please share it and the source with the group.

 

Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE

 

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 7:13:29 PM EDT, Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> wrote:

 

 

This angle was certainly a question.  I always made the 1.2m diam kilns with 60 deg sides because with that angle you naturally maximally use a standard 1:2 format rectangular sheet.  The first KT was steeper.  The maximization of use is not quite unique for the 2 sheets needed to make bigger cones but I settled on a maximum volume achieved at about 64.5 deg and 1.65m diameter (for 1.2m x 2.4m sheets; 1.69 m diam, 67.6 deg for the 4% larger Chinese/European sheets).

The convection dynamics indicated that steep, tall sides maximized vortex strength and stability. This of course is aided by the sides being hotter, so a heat shield with proper spacing, computed from thickness of skin layers, helped in several ways.  Very shallow cones switch to a reverse vortex as you would expect with a flat sheet, as Josiah first did it, and this is the incorrect vortex shown in the Japanese drawings.  There is an intermediate shallow cone angle (<45 deg), where the two modes compete, so the vortex has no strength and stability and it is hard to maintain good fire with inimical feedstock.

A couple of reasons for cone shape seemed to be easier to start with small fire, and quicker coverage and protection of biochar in early stages by more char.   However, understanding the vortex dynamics would be strong in a vertical wall, encouraged the simplification to rings.  These could be started well and quickly with air leakage around the bottom, which was blocked once the sides were hot and updraft strong, so the vortex kicked in.  The strong vortex drives air down to the pyrolysis front, determining the rate of pyrolysis, so has importance.  The big Mokis were truncated cones with open bottom as well, but were generally not deep.

We were unsure of our success with the first running of the completely sealed bottom of the deep cone KT. In fact we did find it hard to start with a small fire in the bottom, and we learned to start a fire on top of biomass piled high up into the kiln to aid access of air to the initial fire.

A new innovation in the KT was the drain at the bottom to allow easy draining and capture of the smoke water, which opened up the method of bottom quenching with nutrient solutions.  Naturally we experimented with leaving the small drain open for starting, closing it later, but surprisingly it did not help in natural draft, which I later realized was due to the convection flows creating a low pressure under the kiln.

Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:06 AM, "tmiles@..." <tmiles@...> wrote:

Interesting history. In my conversations with both Mokei and Dr. Ogawa in Japan in 2011 he emphasized the importance of the 60 degree angle of the sides of the kiln for optimizing char production. At the time Moki was offering kilns up to 10 feet in diameter but the ones we saw in use were more like 4-6 feet in diameter.
 
Tom
 
 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 10:09 AM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 

Hi all: the origin for me of the flame cap was Tom Reed’s open pyramid pyrolysis, and his exemplification of it in “pinecone pyrolysis”, and of course the Jack Daniel’s method from the 1930s, which Peter Hirst presented in his chapter in the Biochar Revolution, 2010.

The cone approach for me was specifically inspired by Tom Miles in his 2011 presentation referencing the Jan 2010 paper on the use of the Moki Kiln for making biochar for the “Cool Veges” initiative: A Rural Revitalization Scheme in Japan Utilizing Biochar and Eco-Branding: The Carbon Minus Project, Kameoka City. Steven R. McGreevy, Akira Shibata,
and by this report using the Moki kiln.
Properties of Cinders from Red Pine, Black Locust and Henon Bamboo Inoue, Y ; Mogi, K ; Yoshizawa, S
APBC Kyoto 2011

That was reinforced by an article and blog by an Englishman who reported a technique of gradually pushing biomass into an open fire in a pit or trench.  In my presentations I included Tom Reeds pyramid pyrolysis and the Moki kiln to explain methods of making biochar distinct from the TLUD and the retort, and I started to design large transportable flame cap ring kilns, assembled in sections, for handling large burn piles on my property in N NSW.  Independently, in late 2012, Dolph, a neighbor here, reported making biochar in an open top, deep steel ring, which he called the Moxham.    http://biocharproject.org/charmasters-log/farm-scale-biochar/

In 2013 Kelpie also discovered and reported the gradual feeding technique for the cone kiln, and Stuart Mather drew attention to the Holy Mother Kiln that Dr Reddy reported in May 2011:  https://biocharkiln.blogspot.com   He called it a TLUD but you can start a flame cap ring in a “TLUD” mode, then convert to flame cap by closing off the primary air, thus preserving the created char and allowing more biomass to be added till the kiln is full of char.  

So 2013 was a big year for the convergent emergence of the flame cap method, I think for some of us triggered by Tom Miles presentation in 2011, but it might be considered a reprise of an earlier convergent emergence in 2009-11 of explorations by Josiah, Reddy, the Japanese, and the Englishman. It took till 2013/14 for a final breaking of the spell that making biochar required various complexities of vessels, pipes, seals, lids and chimneys.

This then was all brought to Switzerland in Jul 2014 and comingled with Hans-Peter’s provenance.  Kon Tiki was named as we first lit it because it was the first voyage of a large deep cone kiln, and we had no idea if it could work.  The name was confirmed when I discovered Kon-Tiki was a fire/sun god.  The observation of the inward rolling vortex in the Kon-Tiki (similar to back eddies familiar from rafting the Grand Canyon) were consistent with physics, and corrected the confusing unphysical convection arrows shown in the Japanese drawings.  This convection driven dynamic provided a natural draft system that conveyed a balance and sufficiency of air and mixing to both the pyrolysis and the gas combustion regions. Calculations of the convective flow velocities confirmed this, and also guided understanding of the impact of diameter and wall slope, verified by subsequent experiments.

For me this was a renewal of a much earlier origin in 1980 during my 9 month’s of studies in India. There I acquired and brought back to the US an Agni Yoga pyramid, a small copper inverted pyramid, which is used to pyrolyse a mixture of cow dung, ghee and rice hulls or other biomass in a dawn and dusk ritual to heal earth and atmosphere (with the C/ash residue being valued for soil fertility). This inspired an interest in fire as an important element to manage, which manifested in starting a company in the 1980s, Micro-organic Fuel. This combined enzyme digested rice hulls or wheat straw, coal dust, and sodium silicate, and heated them to make low S synthetic fire logs or beautiful fire-proof wood-like building materials (depending on the amount of sodium silicate).  

The cone kiln or pyramid kiln (and open flame cap kiln in general), literalized the Agni ritual into a technology to physically heal earth and atmosphere, and I began calling my workshops such.  Hans-Peter and I discussed all this as we explored all variations of shapes and sizes, including heat shields and pits, during our first Kon-Tiki runs in Switzerland.

In Australia later in 2014 with Stephen Joseph we explored snuffing with a cover consisting of combinations of Fe rich clay, compost and cold charcoal, which in a reprise of Josiah’s discovery provided a baking for at least 4 days during which spatial and temporal temperature profiles measured in the range 250-450C. This produced a layer of biochar mineral complex to mix into the biochar.

Paul

On 10/9/20, 1:50 PM, "josiah hunt" <josiahhunt@...> wrote:

Hi Paul, here is a much better copy of that Poster from the Ames Conference 2010

On Oct 8, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Thank you all very much.   If you think of other info or people, please contact me and the others.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  
www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <
schmidt@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 3:45 PM
To: josiah hunt <
josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dear Paul and all,
(adding Paul Taylor on cc)
 
I do not remember exactly if I found out about the “flame cap” / “flame curtain” principle through Kelpie’s backyard website or through Josiah’s pit demonstration. It was the one or the other but what is sure is that what we called the Kon-Tiki came after (in 2014) and was inspired by Kelpie, Josiah, Moki, Moxham, Wittman, Gilmore and the ancients. Paul (Taylor) and I described this “history” in our first article about the Kon-Tiki, the democratization of biochar production:
https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39.
Our part in the story is mainly the popularization of the Kon-Tiki through articles and open access designs and operating instructions. This led to the nice success of Kon-Tiki type constructions in > 65 countries already in 2017.
 
In our article, Paul and I also explain why we choose the Kon-Tiki as a generic name for it and why it was important to use a catchy, generic name. Outside the US, and in a growing number of scientific publications, everybody uses the name Kon-Tiki which is very helpful for the scale-up and community exchange.
 
Thanks to Kelpie and Josiah, who started this journey for all of us.
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 
Von: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2020 um 20:04
An: "Anderson, Paul" <
psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>, Tom Miles <tmiles@...>, 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>, Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

Hello All,
 
Covergent evolution.  
 
In August 2008, I first began efforts to intentionally produce biochar.  Guided by memories of bonfires on the beach, and the large bed of coals present in the waning hours, the first fires were on flat ground and built in a way that had a fast crescendo towards a peak point, then allowed to burn to coals before quenching.  When shaping the ground after each fire and before the next, ash and char would be scraped up, and a small depression was formed, this spurred the thinking that intentionally increasing that depression would make a better bed for the coals, and could give me better air control against the air intake that happens at the sides and bottoms and directly eats the building stock of char.  Deepening the depression quickly showed positive results.  Trial and error quickly resulted in a cone shaped pit in the ground with a high back on the lee side (when incline is present).  Several pits were used for commercial production of biochar for a period lasting about 5 years.  Several hundred tons of biochar were produced in this manner during that time.
 
Quenching was performed with water in the first efforts.  Then it was discovered that a dirt cover, applied only at the end when all the wood has been carbonized, could snuff out the embers effectively and efficiently.  Dirt cover would be removed several days later during harvesting of char.  Metal roofing and several other materials were trialled for coverings.  Clay rich dirt was the favored cover material, and was re-used many times until it became more charcoal than clay, at which point it was tossed in the compost.  
 
NOTE: The soils where I was doing the majority of the commercial production fires were mostly volcanic cinder, which allowed a unique trick - the embers could gently and evenly breath just enough oxygen from the soil to keep the temperatures at or above 250C for days or even weeks if I were to let it. This allowed for a “baking” trick that is rarely repeatable.  
 
Attached is a poster I presented at the 2010 conference in Ames Iowa.  
 
- Josiah Hunt
808 936-3484

"Each generation is entitled to the interest on the natural capital, but the principal should be handed on unimpaired."
Canada’s Commission on Conservation (1915)

<image001.jpg>
 

On Oct 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:
 
Kelpie,    And adding Josiah Hunt to this group of recipients and Hugh because he has been following this for years.
 
It was as recent as 2012 for you  !!!   The concept came from Japan but not brought by the Japanese.   How did you come across the concept?   Was Josiah Hunt making char in pits back then?   Or when did he start and why?   
 
These stories of origins will be lost if we do not pull them together.
 
Because of you I made my first attempt with a half-barrel (longitudinal cut) in 2014, and I immediately want to the covered design with the portal in the side and chimneys, put in a provisional patent application and then in 2015 started showing the covered cavity kiln (which did not rotate to accomplish the mixing until the second half of 2019).
 
Did Hans-Peter or Kathleen or anyone else do flame cap work then or earlier?
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  
www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Cc:
tmiles@...; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Looking at my photo records, I see that I finally figured out how to use the cone kiln in spring 2013
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4qpskMMRBg4V4M26
I built it the year before and it took me many tries to figure out how it worked. The pictures from Japan were all I had to go on.
I gave a flash talk on the cone kiln at the 2013 USBI conference in Amherst and after that, a lot of people started experimenting with cone kilns
I then switched to pyramid and cylinder shapes because the cone was much too difficult and expensive to fabricate. The other shapes work just as well if not better, especially the cylinder.  Dolph Cooke pioneered the cylinder kilns around the same time I made my cone kiln.
Thanks for being the historian here, Paul!
 
-Kelpie
 
-Kelpie
 
 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 9:09 AM Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...> wrote:


Tom,
 
Yes, roots of flame cap go back to Japan.    When did it get started, or when did you see him making biochar?
 
But sometimes there can be LOOOOONG lead up times.   Like hundreds of years for terra preta before it was becoming recognized in about 2007.    
 
Who “brought the Moki kiln to the attention of a wider audience”?   HPS and Kelpie were really early, right?   But when were their starts?    I hope they will  answer.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From:
tmiles@... <tmiles@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>; 'Kelpie Wilson' <kelpiew@...>; ''Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal' <schmidt@...>; 'Kathleen Draper' <draper@...>
Subject: RE: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dr. Makato Ogawa, the Moki Kiln, Japan was the first one I saw making biochar.
 
Tom
 
 
From: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 9:47 PM
To: Kelpie Wilson <
kelpiew@...>; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Tom Miles - Oregon - listservs <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Subject: Origins of flame cap technology
 
Kelpie, Hans-Peter, Kathleen and Tom,
 
When and by whom did the flame cap technology begin and become recognized?   I also call  it “cavity kilns” of which there are open top and covered versions, but nothing on that occurred until 2014.   
 
We should eventually get such information recorded, but my need at the moment is to give credit to the  early innovators and the time period of origin, so general answers are fine.
 
I  hope to hear from you soon.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   
www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to:
www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  
www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 


 

 


 

--

Ms.Kelpie Wilson
Wilson Biochar Associates

Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890

Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson


Re: Revitalising oases through agroforestry and biochar #agroforestry #biosolids

Geoff Thomas
 

Hi Frank, good to hear your' getting out there and talking to people, haven’t we all done our share of that!
- has to be done though.

Nice that you liked that book of Kathleen and Albert,  but I don’t understand why you think I need to read it, as I have been developing my understanding of Charcoal and Biochar since 2007, planting thousands of trees with charcoal in the potting mix in 2009, and am pretty well much up to speed on new developments.

This doesn’t change the fact that there is, and not by any means just me that is aware of it, a problem with People selling charcoal as Biochar and thousands of academics writing critical articles about biochar whilst using charcoal labelled as biochar.
I notice you have totally failed to contribute to that discussion, but instead used the space to chastise me for daring to call for change.

I have often observed that people turn to insults when they have run out of truth, and suggest you may be skating close to that line.

Or perhaps you are just saying ‘look at me I’m Frank, aren’t I clever?

Wel,l nothing wrong with that, over the last 5 years I have written a submission to the Finkel Report, - Mainly on South Australia, and seeing my ideas used and working there, and on that was asked to write another  detailed submission for the National Energy Guarantee, the said submission being rejected out of hand by mr Friedenburg, but as I had posted it on an American site, I was asked by the AEMO if they could use my vision for a Renewable Energy Australia as part of their future plan, and I note it has now been taken up by the Labor party as their central plank, - I feel very good about these things, and currently I am building a new first response fire truck, and I have no doubt that they will being built all over the world in a few years time, so I am a very creative designer, and very busy at 71 and still very commited to Biochar, - if it is indeed biochar.

Perhaps you could go back and see exactly what points I am making on that subject rather than trying to kill discussion on it by put down suggestions to me.

From my discussion with you I understood you add other materials to the charcoal to make your Biochar, isn’t that so?

Cheers,
Geoff.

On 9 Oct 2020, at 8:55 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

Hello Geoff  T., 
Tomorrow morning Karin &  I will again answer inquiries and questions about the complex Biochar topic at the Launceston Farmers Harvest Market and we will sell again bags of FRANK’S CHAR and plants, seedlings, cuttings  growing in our Biochar:
https://harvestmarket.org.au/stallholder/terra-preta-developments . We also offer information about our currently 4 models of KON-TIKI-TAS Biochar Kilns and other technologies to co-generate Biochar, Thermal Energy, Power and/ or Bio-Methane,  a colorless, odorless flammable gas which is the main constituent of natural gas. 

Having followed this discussion trail, to be as frank as I can be, it is fascinating how over the last 5+years or so people have responded and learned and shared and purchased more and more of what is on offer. The great book by Kathleen Draper and Albert Bates about Carbon Cascades outlines the scope of Pyrogenic carbon Capture and Sequestration  
https://www.chelseagreen.com/2019/carbon-cascades and  https://www.chelseagreen.com/2019/how-to-make-biochar .
So, in other words Geoff I like to suggest it is high time to get a copy, and if / when you know all, recommend it to others who struggle to come to grips with the benefits of Biochar! 
Relax and get into action – show what good quality Biochar is all about rather than to bombard us here with your (outdated) agenda of interpretations what is and not is Biochar or Charcoal.  It’s time!

Thank you  Kathleen and hello Harald,
It is time to rest this topic, please – there is plenty of information out there and a little thinking should provide the answers to anyone genuinely interested to “get it”.
There is so much to do and I am / we are on to it since 2007. 
My/ our business is trading as ‘Terra Preta Developments’, obviously is about developing black soils, and much more.
I use the term Biochar when I have ‘Pyrogenic Carbon’ that is used  to foster life. 
Other terms I often use are more task specific be that FeedChar , FiltrationChar, CharAsphalt, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars, be they magnetic or made with specific characteristics. 
Charcoal is used for cooking, heating etc. thus carbon is oxidised with oxygen to Co2 and the ash that is made up of the very minerals that once entered the plant / tree in a liquid form through the feeder roots.

There is lots to do, so lets explore the opportunities!
Frank

 
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Harald Bier
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 8:16 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Revitalising oases through agroforestry and biochar
 
Thanks Kathleen, 
 
I was a bit confused with regards to the comments before and not sure if I’m totally right here. 
We are also talking about a substance here in Europe, not about a utilization or a mix, nor of Terra Preta, which is something totally different from charred biomass. 
We just used biochar as an amendment in asphalt. Not so much biology in there, but charred material made from BIOmass. 
 
Best, Harald (EBI)
 


Am 08.10.2020 um 23:02 schrieb Kathleen Draper <biocharro2@...>:
 
Geoff – 
I specifically said I was speaking ONLY for myself and not on behalf of IBI, so I am not sure why you refashioned my words nor why you attribute the naming of biochar to an American sales gimmick. There is a history to how the term biochar came to be which came about before my time in the industry so I will let others tell that tale. But it was an international discussion which included scientist and industry folks. There is also an IBI biochar standard and several EBC standards for what biochar is and none of them include ‘bio’ by your definition.  These standards are public knowledge, can be found on-line and are what is being used to determine what can be labeled as biochar and what can qualify for carbon removal credits. Most of us realize that biochar is not terra preta, but rather just one component of it. 
 
This recurring conversation always seems to go round and round and to be honest I don’t really see the point of constantly relitigating it. We have, in my opinion, much higher priorities to address if we want to seriously rebalance carbon.  
 
Kathleen (not Katherin)
 
TO BE CLEAR: WHENEVER I POST ON THIS FORUM IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION, NOT ON BEHALF OF IBI, so please do not interpret it as such. 
 
 



Re: Origins of flame cap technology #flamecap #technology

Kelpie Wilson
 

Excellent questions Hugh. Emissions testing is the bottleneck we have to get through, if we want to 
get to the next level with flame cap devices. 
Jim Amonette has brought the methane issue to our attention.
So far all we have is the emissions data that HP did in Nepal. Thank you for that HP, I have used it a lot.

The biggest innovation in Flame Caps so far has been Paul Taylor's idea of adding a heat shield. 
This has very fun effects on fluid and combustion dynamics and I wish we had a computational fluid dynamics
person who could look at this as an afterburner design problem. 

In the meantime we all continue to tinker.
Check out some nice video of flaming vortex loops in this short video I made:

Kelpie

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:46 PM Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...> wrote:
List, et al.

Since we are drilling down on the flame cap option, what is the consensus on emissions and levels of unburned VOC's, methane, etc. I am concerned there is a continuous region of quenching at the limits of the flames as they dart around, leaving carbon monoxide and perhaps forming PM2.5 via the Boudouard reaction, and possibly methane forming in the lower sections of the pyrolyzing biomass that does not combust in the flame cap due to methane's high auto-ignition temperature of above 550C. In addition, the issue of transient emissions during the addition of fresh biomass and the readily observed transient smoke escaping the flame cap.

If anyone has any data, please share it and the source with the group.

Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 7:13:29 PM EDT, Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> wrote:


This angle was certainly a question.  I always made the 1.2m diam kilns with 60 deg sides because with that angle you naturally maximally use a standard 1:2 format rectangular sheet.  The first KT was steeper.  The maximization of use is not quite unique for the 2 sheets needed to make bigger cones but I settled on a maximum volume achieved at about 64.5 deg and 1.65m diameter (for 1.2m x 2.4m sheets; 1.69 m diam, 67.6 deg for the 4% larger Chinese/European sheets).

The convection dynamics indicated that steep, tall sides maximized vortex strength and stability. This of course is aided by the sides being hotter, so a heat shield with proper spacing, computed from thickness of skin layers, helped in several ways.  Very shallow cones switch to a reverse vortex as you would expect with a flat sheet, as Josiah first did it, and this is the incorrect vortex shown in the Japanese drawings.  There is an intermediate shallow cone angle (<45 deg), where the two modes compete, so the vortex has no strength and stability and it is hard to maintain good fire with inimical feedstock.

A couple of reasons for cone shape seemed to be easier to start with small fire, and quicker coverage and protection of biochar in early stages by more char.   However, understanding the vortex dynamics would be strong in a vertical wall, encouraged the simplification to rings.  These could be started well and quickly with air leakage around the bottom, which was blocked once the sides were hot and updraft strong, so the vortex kicked in.  The strong vortex drives air down to the pyrolysis front, determining the rate of pyrolysis, so has importance.  The big Mokis were truncated cones with open bottom as well, but were generally not deep.

We were unsure of our success with the first running of the completely sealed bottom of the deep cone KT. In fact we did find it hard to start with a small fire in the bottom, and we learned to start a fire on top of biomass piled high up into the kiln to aid access of air to the initial fire.

A new innovation in the KT was the drain at the bottom to allow easy draining and capture of the smoke water, which opened up the method of bottom quenching with nutrient solutions.  Naturally we experimented with leaving the small drain open for starting, closing it later, but surprisingly it did not help in natural draft, which I later realized was due to the convection flows creating a low pressure under the kiln.

Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:06 AM, "tmiles@..." <tmiles@...> wrote:

Interesting history. In my conversations with both Mokei and Dr. Ogawa in Japan in 2011 he emphasized the importance of the 60 degree angle of the sides of the kiln for optimizing char production. At the time Moki was offering kilns up to 10 feet in diameter but the ones we saw in use were more like 4-6 feet in diameter.
 
Tom
 
 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 10:09 AM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 

Hi all: the origin for me of the flame cap was Tom Reed’s open pyramid pyrolysis, and his exemplification of it in “pinecone pyrolysis”, and of course the Jack Daniel’s method from the 1930s, which Peter Hirst presented in his chapter in the Biochar Revolution, 2010.

The cone approach for me was specifically inspired by Tom Miles in his 2011 presentation referencing the Jan 2010 paper on the use of the Moki Kiln for making biochar for the “Cool Veges” initiative: A Rural Revitalization Scheme in Japan Utilizing Biochar and Eco-Branding: The Carbon Minus Project, Kameoka City. Steven R. McGreevy, Akira Shibata,
and by this report using the Moki kiln.
Properties of Cinders from Red Pine, Black Locust and Henon Bamboo Inoue, Y ; Mogi, K ; Yoshizawa, S
APBC Kyoto 2011

That was reinforced by an article and blog by an Englishman who reported a technique of gradually pushing biomass into an open fire in a pit or trench.  In my presentations I included Tom Reeds pyramid pyrolysis and the Moki kiln to explain methods of making biochar distinct from the TLUD and the retort, and I started to design large transportable flame cap ring kilns, assembled in sections, for handling large burn piles on my property in N NSW.  Independently, in late 2012, Dolph, a neighbor here, reported making biochar in an open top, deep steel ring, which he called the Moxham.    http://biocharproject.org/charmasters-log/farm-scale-biochar/

In 2013 Kelpie also discovered and reported the gradual feeding technique for the cone kiln, and Stuart Mather drew attention to the Holy Mother Kiln that Dr Reddy reported in May 2011:  https://biocharkiln.blogspot.com   He called it a TLUD but you can start a flame cap ring in a “TLUD” mode, then convert to flame cap by closing off the primary air, thus preserving the created char and allowing more biomass to be added till the kiln is full of char.  

So 2013 was a big year for the convergent emergence of the flame cap method, I think for some of us triggered by Tom Miles presentation in 2011, but it might be considered a reprise of an earlier convergent emergence in 2009-11 of explorations by Josiah, Reddy, the Japanese, and the Englishman. It took till 2013/14 for a final breaking of the spell that making biochar required various complexities of vessels, pipes, seals, lids and chimneys.

This then was all brought to Switzerland in Jul 2014 and comingled with Hans-Peter’s provenance.  Kon Tiki was named as we first lit it because it was the first voyage of a large deep cone kiln, and we had no idea if it could work.  The name was confirmed when I discovered Kon-Tiki was a fire/sun god.  The observation of the inward rolling vortex in the Kon-Tiki (similar to back eddies familiar from rafting the Grand Canyon) were consistent with physics, and corrected the confusing unphysical convection arrows shown in the Japanese drawings.  This convection driven dynamic provided a natural draft system that conveyed a balance and sufficiency of air and mixing to both the pyrolysis and the gas combustion regions. Calculations of the convective flow velocities confirmed this, and also guided understanding of the impact of diameter and wall slope, verified by subsequent experiments.

For me this was a renewal of a much earlier origin in 1980 during my 9 month’s of studies in India. There I acquired and brought back to the US an Agni Yoga pyramid, a small copper inverted pyramid, which is used to pyrolyse a mixture of cow dung, ghee and rice hulls or other biomass in a dawn and dusk ritual to heal earth and atmosphere (with the C/ash residue being valued for soil fertility). This inspired an interest in fire as an important element to manage, which manifested in starting a company in the 1980s, Micro-organic Fuel. This combined enzyme digested rice hulls or wheat straw, coal dust, and sodium silicate, and heated them to make low S synthetic fire logs or beautiful fire-proof wood-like building materials (depending on the amount of sodium silicate).  

The cone kiln or pyramid kiln (and open flame cap kiln in general), literalized the Agni ritual into a technology to physically heal earth and atmosphere, and I began calling my workshops such.  Hans-Peter and I discussed all this as we explored all variations of shapes and sizes, including heat shields and pits, during our first Kon-Tiki runs in Switzerland.

In Australia later in 2014 with Stephen Joseph we explored snuffing with a cover consisting of combinations of Fe rich clay, compost and cold charcoal, which in a reprise of Josiah’s discovery provided a baking for at least 4 days during which spatial and temporal temperature profiles measured in the range 250-450C. This produced a layer of biochar mineral complex to mix into the biochar.

Paul

On 10/9/20, 1:50 PM, "josiah hunt" <josiahhunt@...> wrote:
Hi Paul, here is a much better copy of that Poster from the Ames Conference 2010


On Oct 8, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Thank you all very much.   If you think of other info or people, please contact me and the others.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 3:45 PM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dear Paul and all,
(adding Paul Taylor on cc)
 
I do not remember exactly if I found out about the “flame cap” / “flame curtain” principle through Kelpie’s backyard website or through Josiah’s pit demonstration. It was the one or the other but what is sure is that what we called the Kon-Tiki came after (in 2014) and was inspired by Kelpie, Josiah, Moki, Moxham, Wittman, Gilmore and the ancients. Paul (Taylor) and I described this “history” in our first article about the Kon-Tiki, the democratization of biochar production: https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39.
Our part in the story is mainly the popularization of the Kon-Tiki through articles and open access designs and operating instructions. This led to the nice success of Kon-Tiki type constructions in > 65 countries already in 2017.
 
In our article, Paul and I also explain why we choose the Kon-Tiki as a generic name for it and why it was important to use a catchy, generic name. Outside the US, and in a growing number of scientific publications, everybody uses the name Kon-Tiki which is very helpful for the scale-up and community exchange.
 
Thanks to Kelpie and Josiah, who started this journey for all of us.
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 
Von: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2020 um 20:04
An: "Anderson, Paul" <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>, Tom Miles <tmiles@...>, 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>, Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

Hello All,
 
Covergent evolution.  
 
In August 2008, I first began efforts to intentionally produce biochar.  Guided by memories of bonfires on the beach, and the large bed of coals present in the waning hours, the first fires were on flat ground and built in a way that had a fast crescendo towards a peak point, then allowed to burn to coals before quenching.  When shaping the ground after each fire and before the next, ash and char would be scraped up, and a small depression was formed, this spurred the thinking that intentionally increasing that depression would make a better bed for the coals, and could give me better air control against the air intake that happens at the sides and bottoms and directly eats the building stock of char.  Deepening the depression quickly showed positive results.  Trial and error quickly resulted in a cone shaped pit in the ground with a high back on the lee side (when incline is present).  Several pits were used for commercial production of biochar for a period lasting about 5 years.  Several hundred tons of biochar were produced in this manner during that time.
 
Quenching was performed with water in the first efforts.  Then it was discovered that a dirt cover, applied only at the end when all the wood has been carbonized, could snuff out the embers effectively and efficiently.  Dirt cover would be removed several days later during harvesting of char.  Metal roofing and several other materials were trialled for coverings.  Clay rich dirt was the favored cover material, and was re-used many times until it became more charcoal than clay, at which point it was tossed in the compost.  
 
NOTE: The soils where I was doing the majority of the commercial production fires were mostly volcanic cinder, which allowed a unique trick - the embers could gently and evenly breath just enough oxygen from the soil to keep the temperatures at or above 250C for days or even weeks if I were to let it. This allowed for a “baking” trick that is rarely repeatable.  
 
Attached is a poster I presented at the 2010 conference in Ames Iowa.  
 
- Josiah Hunt
808 936-3484

"Each generation is entitled to the interest on the natural capital, but the principal should be handed on unimpaired."
Canada’s Commission on Conservation (1915)

<image001.jpg>
 
On Oct 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:
 
Kelpie,    And adding Josiah Hunt to this group of recipients and Hugh because he has been following this for years.
 
It was as recent as 2012 for you  !!!   The concept came from Japan but not brought by the Japanese.   How did you come across the concept?   Was Josiah Hunt making char in pits back then?   Or when did he start and why?   
 
These stories of origins will be lost if we do not pull them together.
 
Because of you I made my first attempt with a half-barrel (longitudinal cut) in 2014, and I immediately want to the covered design with the portal in the side and chimneys, put in a provisional patent application and then in 2015 started showing the covered cavity kiln (which did not rotate to accomplish the mixing until the second half of 2019).
 
Did Hans-Peter or Kathleen or anyone else do flame cap work then or earlier?
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: tmiles@...; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Looking at my photo records, I see that I finally figured out how to use the cone kiln in spring 2013
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4qpskMMRBg4V4M26
I built it the year before and it took me many tries to figure out how it worked. The pictures from Japan were all I had to go on.
I gave a flash talk on the cone kiln at the 2013 USBI conference in Amherst and after that, a lot of people started experimenting with cone kilns
I then switched to pyramid and cylinder shapes because the cone was much too difficult and expensive to fabricate. The other shapes work just as well if not better, especially the cylinder.  Dolph Cooke pioneered the cylinder kilns around the same time I made my cone kiln.
Thanks for being the historian here, Paul!
 
-Kelpie
 
-Kelpie
 
 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 9:09 AM Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Tom,
 
Yes, roots of flame cap go back to Japan.    When did it get started, or when did you see him making biochar?
 
But sometimes there can be LOOOOONG lead up times.   Like hundreds of years for terra preta before it was becoming recognized in about 2007.    
 
Who “brought the Moki kiln to the attention of a wider audience”?   HPS and Kelpie were really early, right?   But when were their starts?    I hope they will  answer.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: tmiles@... <tmiles@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; 'Kelpie Wilson' <kelpiew@...>; ''Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal' <schmidt@...>; 'Kathleen Draper' <draper@...>
Subject: RE: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dr. Makato Ogawa, the Moki Kiln, Japan was the first one I saw making biochar.
 
Tom
 
 
From: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 9:47 PM
To: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Tom Miles - Oregon - listservs <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Subject: Origins of flame cap technology
 
Kelpie, Hans-Peter, Kathleen and Tom,
 
When and by whom did the flame cap technology begin and become recognized?   I also call  it “cavity kilns” of which there are open top and covered versions, but nothing on that occurred until 2014.   
 
We should eventually get such information recorded, but my need at the moment is to give credit to the  early innovators and the time period of origin, so general answers are fine.
 
I  hope to hear from you soon.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 

 



--
Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890
Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson


Re: Origins of flame cap technology #flamecap #technology

Hugh McLaughlin
 

List, et al.

Since we are drilling down on the flame cap option, what is the consensus on emissions and levels of unburned VOC's, methane, etc. I am concerned there is a continuous region of quenching at the limits of the flames as they dart around, leaving carbon monoxide and perhaps forming PM2.5 via the Boudouard reaction, and possibly methane forming in the lower sections of the pyrolyzing biomass that does not combust in the flame cap due to methane's high auto-ignition temperature of above 550C. In addition, the issue of transient emissions during the addition of fresh biomass and the readily observed transient smoke escaping the flame cap.

If anyone has any data, please share it and the source with the group.

Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 7:13:29 PM EDT, Paul Taylor <potaylor@...> wrote:


This angle was certainly a question.  I always made the 1.2m diam kilns with 60 deg sides because with that angle you naturally maximally use a standard 1:2 format rectangular sheet.  The first KT was steeper.  The maximization of use is not quite unique for the 2 sheets needed to make bigger cones but I settled on a maximum volume achieved at about 64.5 deg and 1.65m diameter (for 1.2m x 2.4m sheets; 1.69 m diam, 67.6 deg for the 4% larger Chinese/European sheets).

The convection dynamics indicated that steep, tall sides maximized vortex strength and stability. This of course is aided by the sides being hotter, so a heat shield with proper spacing, computed from thickness of skin layers, helped in several ways.  Very shallow cones switch to a reverse vortex as you would expect with a flat sheet, as Josiah first did it, and this is the incorrect vortex shown in the Japanese drawings.  There is an intermediate shallow cone angle (<45 deg), where the two modes compete, so the vortex has no strength and stability and it is hard to maintain good fire with inimical feedstock.

A couple of reasons for cone shape seemed to be easier to start with small fire, and quicker coverage and protection of biochar in early stages by more char.   However, understanding the vortex dynamics would be strong in a vertical wall, encouraged the simplification to rings.  These could be started well and quickly with air leakage around the bottom, which was blocked once the sides were hot and updraft strong, so the vortex kicked in.  The strong vortex drives air down to the pyrolysis front, determining the rate of pyrolysis, so has importance.  The big Mokis were truncated cones with open bottom as well, but were generally not deep.

We were unsure of our success with the first running of the completely sealed bottom of the deep cone KT. In fact we did find it hard to start with a small fire in the bottom, and we learned to start a fire on top of biomass piled high up into the kiln to aid access of air to the initial fire.

A new innovation in the KT was the drain at the bottom to allow easy draining and capture of the smoke water, which opened up the method of bottom quenching with nutrient solutions.  Naturally we experimented with leaving the small drain open for starting, closing it later, but surprisingly it did not help in natural draft, which I later realized was due to the convection flows creating a low pressure under the kiln.

Paul



On 10/10/20, 6:06 AM, "tmiles@..." <tmiles@...> wrote:

Interesting history. In my conversations with both Mokei and Dr. Ogawa in Japan in 2011 he emphasized the importance of the 60 degree angle of the sides of the kiln for optimizing char production. At the time Moki was offering kilns up to 10 feet in diameter but the ones we saw in use were more like 4-6 feet in diameter.
 
Tom
 
 

From: Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 10:09 AM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>; Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 

Hi all: the origin for me of the flame cap was Tom Reed’s open pyramid pyrolysis, and his exemplification of it in “pinecone pyrolysis”, and of course the Jack Daniel’s method from the 1930s, which Peter Hirst presented in his chapter in the Biochar Revolution, 2010.

The cone approach for me was specifically inspired by Tom Miles in his 2011 presentation referencing the Jan 2010 paper on the use of the Moki Kiln for making biochar for the “Cool Veges” initiative: A Rural Revitalization Scheme in Japan Utilizing Biochar and Eco-Branding: The Carbon Minus Project, Kameoka City. Steven R. McGreevy, Akira Shibata,
and by this report using the Moki kiln.
Properties of Cinders from Red Pine, Black Locust and Henon Bamboo Inoue, Y ; Mogi, K ; Yoshizawa, S
APBC Kyoto 2011

That was reinforced by an article and blog by an Englishman who reported a technique of gradually pushing biomass into an open fire in a pit or trench.  In my presentations I included Tom Reeds pyramid pyrolysis and the Moki kiln to explain methods of making biochar distinct from the TLUD and the retort, and I started to design large transportable flame cap ring kilns, assembled in sections, for handling large burn piles on my property in N NSW.  Independently, in late 2012, Dolph, a neighbor here, reported making biochar in an open top, deep steel ring, which he called the Moxham.    http://biocharproject.org/charmasters-log/farm-scale-biochar/

In 2013 Kelpie also discovered and reported the gradual feeding technique for the cone kiln, and Stuart Mather drew attention to the Holy Mother Kiln that Dr Reddy reported in May 2011:  https://biocharkiln.blogspot.com   He called it a TLUD but you can start a flame cap ring in a “TLUD” mode, then convert to flame cap by closing off the primary air, thus preserving the created char and allowing more biomass to be added till the kiln is full of char.  

So 2013 was a big year for the convergent emergence of the flame cap method, I think for some of us triggered by Tom Miles presentation in 2011, but it might be considered a reprise of an earlier convergent emergence in 2009-11 of explorations by Josiah, Reddy, the Japanese, and the Englishman. It took till 2013/14 for a final breaking of the spell that making biochar required various complexities of vessels, pipes, seals, lids and chimneys.

This then was all brought to Switzerland in Jul 2014 and comingled with Hans-Peter’s provenance.  Kon Tiki was named as we first lit it because it was the first voyage of a large deep cone kiln, and we had no idea if it could work.  The name was confirmed when I discovered Kon-Tiki was a fire/sun god.  The observation of the inward rolling vortex in the Kon-Tiki (similar to back eddies familiar from rafting the Grand Canyon) were consistent with physics, and corrected the confusing unphysical convection arrows shown in the Japanese drawings.  This convection driven dynamic provided a natural draft system that conveyed a balance and sufficiency of air and mixing to both the pyrolysis and the gas combustion regions. Calculations of the convective flow velocities confirmed this, and also guided understanding of the impact of diameter and wall slope, verified by subsequent experiments.

For me this was a renewal of a much earlier origin in 1980 during my 9 month’s of studies in India. There I acquired and brought back to the US an Agni Yoga pyramid, a small copper inverted pyramid, which is used to pyrolyse a mixture of cow dung, ghee and rice hulls or other biomass in a dawn and dusk ritual to heal earth and atmosphere (with the C/ash residue being valued for soil fertility). This inspired an interest in fire as an important element to manage, which manifested in starting a company in the 1980s, Micro-organic Fuel. This combined enzyme digested rice hulls or wheat straw, coal dust, and sodium silicate, and heated them to make low S synthetic fire logs or beautiful fire-proof wood-like building materials (depending on the amount of sodium silicate).  

The cone kiln or pyramid kiln (and open flame cap kiln in general), literalized the Agni ritual into a technology to physically heal earth and atmosphere, and I began calling my workshops such.  Hans-Peter and I discussed all this as we explored all variations of shapes and sizes, including heat shields and pits, during our first Kon-Tiki runs in Switzerland.

In Australia later in 2014 with Stephen Joseph we explored snuffing with a cover consisting of combinations of Fe rich clay, compost and cold charcoal, which in a reprise of Josiah’s discovery provided a baking for at least 4 days during which spatial and temporal temperature profiles measured in the range 250-450C. This produced a layer of biochar mineral complex to mix into the biochar.

Paul

On 10/9/20, 1:50 PM, "josiah hunt" <josiahhunt@...> wrote:
Hi Paul, here is a much better copy of that Poster from the Ames Conference 2010


On Oct 8, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Thank you all very much.   If you think of other info or people, please contact me and the others.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Schmidt, Hans-Peter <schmidt@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 3:45 PM
To: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>; Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; Tom Miles <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>; Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>; Paul Taylor <potaylor@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dear Paul and all,
(adding Paul Taylor on cc)
 
I do not remember exactly if I found out about the “flame cap” / “flame curtain” principle through Kelpie’s backyard website or through Josiah’s pit demonstration. It was the one or the other but what is sure is that what we called the Kon-Tiki came after (in 2014) and was inspired by Kelpie, Josiah, Moki, Moxham, Wittman, Gilmore and the ancients. Paul (Taylor) and I described this “history” in our first article about the Kon-Tiki, the democratization of biochar production: https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39.
Our part in the story is mainly the popularization of the Kon-Tiki through articles and open access designs and operating instructions. This led to the nice success of Kon-Tiki type constructions in > 65 countries already in 2017.
 
In our article, Paul and I also explain why we choose the Kon-Tiki as a generic name for it and why it was important to use a catchy, generic name. Outside the US, and in a growing number of scientific publications, everybody uses the name Kon-Tiki which is very helpful for the scale-up and community exchange.
 
Thanks to Kelpie and Josiah, who started this journey for all of us.
Cheers, Hans-Peter
 
Von: josiah hunt <josiahhunt@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 2020 um 20:04
An: "Anderson, Paul" <psanders@...>
Cc: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>, Tom Miles <tmiles@...>, 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>, Kathleen Draper <draper@...>, Hugh McLaughlin <hsmclaughlin@...>
Betreff: Re: Origins of flame cap technology

Hello All,
 
Covergent evolution.  
 
In August 2008, I first began efforts to intentionally produce biochar.  Guided by memories of bonfires on the beach, and the large bed of coals present in the waning hours, the first fires were on flat ground and built in a way that had a fast crescendo towards a peak point, then allowed to burn to coals before quenching.  When shaping the ground after each fire and before the next, ash and char would be scraped up, and a small depression was formed, this spurred the thinking that intentionally increasing that depression would make a better bed for the coals, and could give me better air control against the air intake that happens at the sides and bottoms and directly eats the building stock of char.  Deepening the depression quickly showed positive results.  Trial and error quickly resulted in a cone shaped pit in the ground with a high back on the lee side (when incline is present).  Several pits were used for commercial production of biochar for a period lasting about 5 years.  Several hundred tons of biochar were produced in this manner during that time.
 
Quenching was performed with water in the first efforts.  Then it was discovered that a dirt cover, applied only at the end when all the wood has been carbonized, could snuff out the embers effectively and efficiently.  Dirt cover would be removed several days later during harvesting of char.  Metal roofing and several other materials were trialled for coverings.  Clay rich dirt was the favored cover material, and was re-used many times until it became more charcoal than clay, at which point it was tossed in the compost.  
 
NOTE: The soils where I was doing the majority of the commercial production fires were mostly volcanic cinder, which allowed a unique trick - the embers could gently and evenly breath just enough oxygen from the soil to keep the temperatures at or above 250C for days or even weeks if I were to let it. This allowed for a “baking” trick that is rarely repeatable.  
 
Attached is a poster I presented at the 2010 conference in Ames Iowa.  
 
- Josiah Hunt
808 936-3484

"Each generation is entitled to the interest on the natural capital, but the principal should be handed on unimpaired."
Canada’s Commission on Conservation (1915)

<image001.jpg>
 
On Oct 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:
 
Kelpie,    And adding Josiah Hunt to this group of recipients and Hugh because he has been following this for years.
 
It was as recent as 2012 for you  !!!   The concept came from Japan but not brought by the Japanese.   How did you come across the concept?   Was Josiah Hunt making char in pits back then?   Or when did he start and why?   
 
These stories of origins will be lost if we do not pull them together.
 
Because of you I made my first attempt with a half-barrel (longitudinal cut) in 2014, and I immediately want to the covered design with the portal in the side and chimneys, put in a provisional patent application and then in 2015 started showing the covered cavity kiln (which did not rotate to accomplish the mixing until the second half of 2019).
 
Did Hans-Peter or Kathleen or anyone else do flame cap work then or earlier?
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:57 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Cc: tmiles@...; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Subject: Re: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Looking at my photo records, I see that I finally figured out how to use the cone kiln in spring 2013
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4qpskMMRBg4V4M26
I built it the year before and it took me many tries to figure out how it worked. The pictures from Japan were all I had to go on.
I gave a flash talk on the cone kiln at the 2013 USBI conference in Amherst and after that, a lot of people started experimenting with cone kilns
I then switched to pyramid and cylinder shapes because the cone was much too difficult and expensive to fabricate. The other shapes work just as well if not better, especially the cylinder.  Dolph Cooke pioneered the cylinder kilns around the same time I made my cone kiln.
Thanks for being the historian here, Paul!
 
-Kelpie
 
-Kelpie
 
 
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 9:09 AM Anderson, Paul <psanders@...> wrote:

Tom,
 
Yes, roots of flame cap go back to Japan.    When did it get started, or when did you see him making biochar?
 
But sometimes there can be LOOOOONG lead up times.   Like hundreds of years for terra preta before it was becoming recognized in about 2007.    
 
Who “brought the Moki kiln to the attention of a wider audience”?   HPS and Kelpie were really early, right?   But when were their starts?    I hope they will  answer.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@... <mailto:psanders@...>      Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 
From: tmiles@... <tmiles@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; 'Kelpie Wilson' <kelpiew@...>; ''Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal' <schmidt@...>; 'Kathleen Draper' <draper@...>
Subject: RE: Origins of flame cap technology
 
[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]
Dr. Makato Ogawa, the Moki Kiln, Japan was the first one I saw making biochar.
 
Tom
 
 
From: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 9:47 PM
To: Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...>; 'Hans-Peter Schmidt' - Switzerland - Nepal <schmidt@...>; Tom Miles - Oregon - listservs <tmiles@...>; Kathleen Draper <draper@...>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Subject: Origins of flame cap technology
 
Kelpie, Hans-Peter, Kathleen and Tom,
 
When and by whom did the flame cap technology begin and become recognized?   I also call  it “cavity kilns” of which there are open top and covered versions, but nothing on that occurred until 2014.   
 
We should eventually get such information recorded, but my need at the moment is to give credit to the  early innovators and the time period of origin, so general answers are fine.
 
I  hope to hear from you soon.
 
Paul
 
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>  <http://www.drtlud.com/>
       Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud
         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org <http://www.JuntosNFP.org>  <http://www.juntosnfp.org/>
Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com <http://www.woodgas.com>  <http://www.woodgas.com/>
Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org <http://www.capitalism21.org>  <http://www.capitalism21.org/> )
         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
 

 


Re: SPAM: Re: [Biochar] National Carbon Technologies #hacked

Tom Miles
 

The hacked article has been removed from the archives and Cary’s email has been under moderation until his IT department can clear the issue.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

Biochar List Owner

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Hegberg
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2020 10:41 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: SPAM: Re: [Biochar] National Carbon Technologies

 

WARNING - No don’t review it. I believe Cary’s system has been hacked.  I got one previously.   

 

From: <main@Biochar.groups.io> on behalf of Cary Johnson <cjohnson@...>
Reply-To: "main@Biochar.groups.io" <main@Biochar.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 1:39 PM
Subject: [Biochar] National Carbon Technologies

 

 

Please review proposal
from National Carbon Technologies

From:




(CARY JOHNSON) National Carbon Technologies

This is a secured file. 

 5bbyf7U6OgpaGMOBAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

Note: “This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and/or e-mail."


PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION

This confidential message/attachment contains information intended for a specific individual(s) and purpose. Any inappropriate use, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If received in error, notify the sender and immediately delete the message.

 

Cary Johnson

President, Ag & Turf

National Carbon Technologies

 612-308-4738

 cjohnson@...

 national-carbon.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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