[tluds] ETHOS and low-cost TLUDs #stoves #tlud


Paul S Anderson
 

Dear all,

 

Note to all:  Check how you are receiving this email.  This TLUD discussion is ongoing on the     tluds@Biochar.groups.io     special purpose list serve.   If interested in this topic, you need to join that group because only occasionally will the TLUD topics be sent to the regular longer established Listservs of    Biochar     and of    Stoves. 

 

1.  Ron and all,  I will attend ETHOS 2020 and will assist with the display of the posters related to TLUD stoves (and related biochar topics).    I could (will likely) add on a poster or be in  cooperation with the other posters being proposed.   I agree that posters will get more attention than if we have a single concurrent session and only a few persons attend our session (preaching to the choir).  Our posters could essentially be like a linear display on tables spreading down the long corridor, maybe with a few TLUDs on display also..   VERY visible and there is plenty of break-time to reach the attendees.   I am letting Elisa Derby (head of ETHOS) know of these discussions that relate to ETHOS.  We will make sure that we will be compatible with whatever ETHOS instructs us.

 

2.  Would others with TLUD topics like to be included in this way?      I will not have a presentation at a concurrent session;  I have proposed a plenary session (still being reviewed) that is relevant to the whole stoves sector, not just TLUD stoves. 

 

3.  Who of the TLUD group will be attending ETHOS next month?   Kevin (about the useful stoves), and myself (working in India now abouit a lower cost TLUD stove).    Who else?         

           Also, Ron and Julien will each send a poster.

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

     Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

     Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP

     Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  to support woodgas (TLUD) projects

     incl. purchase of Woodgas Emission Reduction (WER) carbon credits

     and please tell you friends about these distinctive service efforts.

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

     with pages 88 – 94 about  solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: tluds@Biochar.groups.io <tluds@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Larson via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 9:01 PM
To: tluds@biochar.groups.io; Julien Winter <winter.julien@...>
Subject: Re: [tluds] ETHOS and low-cost TLUDs

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

Julien and subgroup:

 

Thanks for the update.

 

I think Kevin won’t mind handling your poster as well as his/mine.  10% more work for him.  My perception of the Akha is that it must be among the top TLUD stove designs where biochar is driving the production.  Another is the Lucia from Nat Mulcahy.  Probably Paul Anderson can report some biochar use.  We need more data on any stove producing biochar.  Norm Baker has great biochar success but his char is not from a stove (only flared gases).  Anyone else?

 

I have spent the whole day with pen and paper and have decided my tentative outline (below) needs space on the future customer base, the competitors, some goals, costs, etc.

So I am now thinking that will now occur in a large box 7.  The former box 7 (air controls will be combined with box 6 (pyro unit),and the new boxes 2, 4 and 6 will be narrower, allowing more to be put in the right-side boxes 3, 5, and 7.   Box 1 smaller, and box 8 larger.

I need three posters.

 

Anyone have recommendations on what the ETHOS group needs to hear re char-making stoves for the global income deciles 1 and 2?

 

 See below also.

 

On Dec 6, 2019, at 2:56 PM, winter.julien <winter.julien@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ronal;

 

I will be sending along a summary document of the Akha shortly.  Some material may be used from that for a poster.  Or, I may mail a stand-along poster on the Akha.

 

I will not be attending ETHOS this year, although I would like to.   I don't feel I can justify the CO2 emissions from flying.

 

[RWL:  Me too.

 

Thanks again.

 

Ron



 

Cheers,

Julien.

 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 2:41 PM Ron Larson <rongretlarson@...> wrote:

Sublist group:

        New Topic:  Getting ETHOS attendees to be thinking of TLUDs for those now using 3-stone stoves

        Kevin McLean has put in an abstract for the January ETHOS meeting for the two of us on the above topic.  This is to ask for your  guidance - on how to get a low cost TLUD across.  How to get the larger stove community (not a biochar community) interested in helping the very poorest in the world.  Helping them and getting their help as well.  What would YOU put on a poster?


        I am computer-storag- limited today - but will come back later with something more complete.  Thinking 8  boxes on the poster:  two broad at the top and bottom, and two columns with 3 rows.

1.   the Title- Something like "TLUDs to Replace 3-Stone Stoves?”    (Emphasis throughout to be on the “?”    Large font here.  Name of McLean and Larson and ??  and e-mail addresses.

2.   The top left box  might be on commercially available TLUDs as we generally know them. - Too high a first cost for the very poor.  But show at least Akha and biochar in Bangladesh

3.. The top right box with the three (or more??) modifications we have been discussing - all oriented on very low prices through three (?) new (?) ideas:
        a  a horizontal shift of the chimney to create a plancha
        b.  Use of the ground - and likely a pit therein
        c.   The use of OLODs (totally enclosed, externally heated biomass.   Might drop this one.
        d.  Other new?

4.  Middle left:  The chimney portion.  What materials and height?

5.  Middle right:  The plancha and pit;  the OLOD here.  How many cook pots needed at once?  What height?

6.  Lower left:  The pyrolysis can;  Emphasis on movement in and out of “pit"

7.  Lower right:   Air supply controls

8.  Bottom banner:   Problems related to local production for the poor who are now using 3-stones (with zero upfrontt costs , but lousy efficiency), and zero char production.


Any immediate thoughts on how to do this well?   What name do we give to this other than TLUD?

Any chance we can get an efficiency measurement in next 4-5 weeks?  (Planchas generally have poor efficiency.  Do we care?  (More coming on new thoughts there)

Generally will need to compare to rockets.

Ron







--

Julien Winter
Cobourg, ON, CANADA

 


Tom Miles
 

Paul,

 

Due to business travel I wil be unable to join a biochar discussion at ETHOS on Friday. I will attend on Saturday and Sunday.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tom

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul S Anderson
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2019 8:17 PM
To: tluds@Biochar.groups.io; Julien Winter <winter.julien@...>; Biochar@groups.io
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves@...>
Subject: Re: [Biochar] [tluds] ETHOS and low-cost TLUDs

 

Dear all,

 

Note to all:  Check how you are receiving this email.  This TLUD discussion is ongoing on the     tluds@Biochar.groups.io     special purpose list serve.   If interested in this topic, you need to join that group because only occasionally will the TLUD topics be sent to the regular longer established Listservs of    Biochar     and of    Stoves. 

 

1.  Ron and all,  I will attend ETHOS 2020 and will assist with the display of the posters related to TLUD stoves (and related biochar topics).    I could (will likely) add on a poster or be in  cooperation with the other posters being proposed.   I agree that posters will get more attention than if we have a single concurrent session and only a few persons attend our session (preaching to the choir).  Our posters could essentially be like a linear display on tables spreading down the long corridor, maybe with a few TLUDs on display also..   VERY visible and there is plenty of break-time to reach the attendees.   I am letting Elisa Derby (head of ETHOS) know of these discussions that relate to ETHOS.  We will make sure that we will be compatible with whatever ETHOS instructs us.

 

2.  Would others with TLUD topics like to be included in this way?      I will not have a presentation at a concurrent session;  I have proposed a plenary session (still being reviewed) that is relevant to the whole stoves sector, not just TLUD stoves. 

 

3.  Who of the TLUD group will be attending ETHOS next month?   Kevin (about the useful stoves), and myself (working in India now abouit a lower cost TLUD stove).    Who else?         

           Also, Ron and Julien will each send a poster.

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

     Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

     Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP

     Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  to support woodgas (TLUD) projects

     incl. purchase of Woodgas Emission Reduction (WER) carbon credits

     and please tell you friends about these distinctive service efforts.

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

     with pages 88 – 94 about  solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: tluds@Biochar.groups.io <tluds@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Larson via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, December 6, 2019 9:01 PM
To: tluds@biochar.groups.io; Julien Winter <winter.julien@...>
Subject: Re: [tluds] ETHOS and low-cost TLUDs

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

Julien and subgroup:

 

Thanks for the update.

 

I think Kevin won’t mind handling your poster as well as his/mine.  10% more work for him.  My perception of the Akha is that it must be among the top TLUD stove designs where biochar is driving the production.  Another is the Lucia from Nat Mulcahy.  Probably Paul Anderson can report some biochar use.  We need more data on any stove producing biochar.  Norm Baker has great biochar success but his char is not from a stove (only flared gases).  Anyone else?

 

I have spent the whole day with pen and paper and have decided my tentative outline (below) needs space on the future customer base, the competitors, some goals, costs, etc.

So I am now thinking that will now occur in a large box 7.  The former box 7 (air controls will be combined with box 6 (pyro unit),and the new boxes 2, 4 and 6 will be narrower, allowing more to be put in the right-side boxes 3, 5, and 7.   Box 1 smaller, and box 8 larger.

I need three posters.

 

Anyone have recommendations on what the ETHOS group needs to hear re char-making stoves for the global income deciles 1 and 2?

 

 See below also.

 

On Dec 6, 2019, at 2:56 PM, winter.julien <winter.julien@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ronal;

 

I will be sending along a summary document of the Akha shortly.  Some material may be used from that for a poster.  Or, I may mail a stand-along poster on the Akha.

 

I will not be attending ETHOS this year, although I would like to.   I don't feel I can justify the CO2 emissions from flying.

 

[RWL:  Me too.

 

Thanks again.

 

Ron

 

 

Cheers,

Julien.

 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 2:41 PM Ron Larson <rongretlarson@...> wrote:

Sublist group:

        New Topic:  Getting ETHOS attendees to be thinking of TLUDs for those now using 3-stone stoves

        Kevin McLean has put in an abstract for the January ETHOS meeting for the two of us on the above topic.  This is to ask for your  guidance - on how to get a low cost TLUD across.  How to get the larger stove community (not a biochar community) interested in helping the very poorest in the world.  Helping them and getting their help as well.  What would YOU put on a poster?


        I am computer-storag- limited today - but will come back later with something more complete.  Thinking 8  boxes on the poster:  two broad at the top and bottom, and two columns with 3 rows.

1.   the Title- Something like "TLUDs to Replace 3-Stone Stoves?”    (Emphasis throughout to be on the “?”    Large font here.  Name of McLean and Larson and ??  and e-mail addresses.

2.   The top left box  might be on commercially available TLUDs as we generally know them. - Too high a first cost for the very poor.  But show at least Akha and biochar in Bangladesh

3.. The top right box with the three (or more??) modifications we have been discussing - all oriented on very low prices through three (?) new (?) ideas:
        a  a horizontal shift of the chimney to create a plancha
        b.  Use of the ground - and likely a pit therein
        c.   The use of OLODs (totally enclosed, externally heated biomass.   Might drop this one.
        d.  Other new?

4.  Middle left:  The chimney portion.  What materials and height?

5.  Middle right:  The plancha and pit;  the OLOD here.  How many cook pots needed at once?  What height?

6.  Lower left:  The pyrolysis can;  Emphasis on movement in and out of “pit"

7.  Lower right:   Air supply controls

8.  Bottom banner:   Problems related to local production for the poor who are now using 3-stones (with zero upfrontt costs , but lousy efficiency), and zero char production.


Any immediate thoughts on how to do this well?   What name do we give to this other than TLUD?

Any chance we can get an efficiency measurement in next 4-5 weeks?  (Planchas generally have poor efficiency.  Do we care?  (More coming on new thoughts there)

Generally will need to compare to rockets.

Ron






--

Julien Winter
Cobourg, ON, CANADA