Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use #flamecap


Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm@...>
 

Hi Don

 

As is frequently said, “Every biochar is different”, and your interesting procedures seem to add new options! J

 

Certainly, the “TLUD Biochar-making Procedure” would be expected to give a somewhat higher biochar yield than an “open burn”, and considerable work has been done on testing such TLUD Biochars.

 

It is possible that your Biochars may have significantly different properties from “TLUD Biochars”. For example, TLUD Biochars may give the Grower/User superior results in “Applications #1, #3, and #5”, while your biochars may give superior results in “Applications #2, #4, and #6”, and they both may give equivalent results in “Applications #7, #8, and #9”

 

Have you any suggestions, or test results, to suggest which chars would be better for which applications?

 

As I presently see it, “small scale Biochar” (such as your process TLUD, “Kelpie Kiln”, and other smaller scale processes) would appear to be the best for true “biosphere carbon reduction” in that the Administrative costs associated with end use verification would make it difficult for a meaningful percentage of carbon credit payments to actually reach the “Small Scale Producer”, to significantly defray production costs.

 

Clarifying the “special and unique” properties of biochars made in different ways should go a long way to ensuring that the Grower/User to get maximum direct benefits from the particular biochar used in his particular application.  

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Coyne
Sent: December 9, 2019 2:33 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

I personally prefer char made in a no oxygen environment (retort) inside a TLUD/Kon-tiki. From my experience, the retort gives a higher carbon content compared to TLUD/Kon-tiki which I would classify as gasification. Both methods produce char so it’s a win win! I empty the retort in a liquid bath whilst its still piping hot straight out the kiln. My preferred nutrient solution is a combination of liquid seaweed solution and wood vinegar that helps to bring down the pH a bit. Also, these amendments are both suitable when applying char to soil or as an animal feed.  Other alternatives are the addition of vinegar and or apple cider vinegar but that’s starting to get expensive. I like to soak for a fortnight but at least overnight then shovel the char onto a tarp where it sun dries for a couple of days before crushing and bagging.

 

Chars,


Don

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 2:28 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Thanks Frank, good ideas there.

Geoff.

 

On 9 Dec 2019, at 1:18 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

  1. For nutrient enriched char, the flood quenching (ideally from below  (in KON-TIKI-TAS kiln with 2”hose and inlet from a 1m3 square tank by gravity)  / or alternatively from one spot on the side wall with a solid stream of liquid manure that will then eventually well up from below without too much hot steam / potentially effecting the operator and the let this soak in for say 24 hours or so. 
    The effect is a great deal of the mineralised ash dissolves in the liquid and the char particles have time to bond with the nutrients.
  2. Just briefly quenching the hot surface (Be aware of Danger of the VERY HOT Steam) and then as soon as the to is doused, use a shovel to extract the still warm /hot / ultra-dry char into a nutrient rich bathtub like vessel.

  3. After 24 hours or so hammer-mill or grind the coarse char into fine and then allow at least 6 weeks in a 1m3 square tank to compost / mature / cure. … Then apply to soil at 10% by volume of soil or say 2.5litres/m2 

  4. Alternatively bag the biochar after 6 weeks curing time and bring to market / shop etc.  ….


Works well for us!
Cheers 
Frank
Producer, User, Tarder of FRANK’S CHAR branded products in Tasmania 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul S Anderson
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kelpie,  

 

Thanks for those useful tips.   Please respond to these comments:

 

1.  I think that quenching with water does not need to be total  flooding, but just heavy soaking (and losing the excess water out the bottom), and then when cool enough to approach the trough, stir it and quench more, as needed.   This assumes a reasonable source of water.

 

2.  If the higher walls of an upright cylinder assist the process, would not a deeper trench and steeper sides also be better than what seems to be advocated (2 to 3 ft deep).

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

     Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

     Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP 

     Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  to support woodgas (TLUD) projects

     incl. purchase of Woodgas Emission Reduction (WER) carbon credits

     and please tell you friends about these distinctive service efforts.

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

     with pages 88 – 94 about  solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves. 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelpie Wilson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:10 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 

Hi all, 

There are a few different ways to go here. First consideration needs to be quenching. How will you put it out? With no solid bottom, you cannot flood quench. Your options will be to snuff it with a lid and dirt to seal the edges, or to open the kiln at the end, dump the char, spread it thin while spraying with a hose.

 

We came up with a design called the Ring of Fire that uses three curved steel panels to make a cylinder. There are flanges that you clamp together to make it air tight. It has a lid for snuffing and it works very well because it is made to close tolerances so it does not leak air (won't hold water though). However, it cost $1000 to make. You can do the same thing with sheets of roofing bolted together to make a cylinder, but you can't snuff quench it because it leaks air.

Open source plans for the Ring of Fire are up at wilsonbiochar.com

 

Cylinders are actually very nice for making biochar. The tall walls act like an afterburner, holding heat in, so they often burn much cleaner than a trough or shallower pan like the Oregon Kiln. See the work of Dolph Cook in Australia.

 

We also have some folks who are using flat steel panels, heavier gauge than roofing steel, that they bolt together into polygon shapes - hexagon or octagon.

Those work fine and can be very large, but same problem with quenching. The only way to do it is to open the kiln, spread thin and spray with water. I will try to get some pictures of those up on wilsonbiochar.com. I will try to get to that this evening. 

 

-Kelpie


 

-- 

Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890

Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson

 


Tomaso Bertoli - CISV
 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

By “Biochar Only” You mean dry charcoal ? no co-composting or nutrient enrichment ?

 

I think that in the past 12 years since 2007 we have fully understood the idea that dry charcoal would suck up everything (water and nutrients) in a poor soil and result in short term negative impact on plants

 

All biomass is different (with reason – try to tell apart apple and pear prunings) and each farmer shall do his or her\best with the available material … hopefully recovering energy while making biochar

 

T

 

Da: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> Per conto di Kevin Chisholm
Inviato: lunedì 9 dicembre 2019 16:51
A: main@Biochar.groups.io
Oggetto: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Don

 

As is frequently said, “Every biochar is different”, and your interesting procedures seem to add new options! J

 

Certainly, the “TLUD Biochar-making Procedure” would be expected to give a somewhat higher biochar yield than an “open burn”, and considerable work has been done on testing such TLUD Biochars.

 

It is possible that your Biochars may have significantly different properties from “TLUD Biochars”. For example, TLUD Biochars may give the Grower/User superior results in “Applications #1, #3, and #5”, while your biochars may give superior results in “Applications #2, #4, and #6”, and they both may give equivalent results in “Applications #7, #8, and #9”

 

Have you any suggestions, or test results, to suggest which chars would be better for which applications?

 

As I presently see it, “small scale Biochar” (such as your process TLUD, “Kelpie Kiln”, and other smaller scale processes) would appear to be the best for true “biosphere carbon reduction” in that the Administrative costs associated with end use verification would make it difficult for a meaningful percentage of carbon credit payments to actually reach the “Small Scale Producer”, to significantly defray production costs.

 

Clarifying the “special and unique” properties of biochars made in different ways should go a long way to ensuring that the Grower/User to get maximum direct benefits from the particular biochar used in his particular application.  

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Coyne
Sent: December 9, 2019 2:33 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

I personally prefer char made in a no oxygen environment (retort) inside a TLUD/Kon-tiki. From my experience, the retort gives a higher carbon content compared to TLUD/Kon-tiki which I would classify as gasification. Both methods produce char so it’s a win win! I empty the retort in a liquid bath whilst its still piping hot straight out the kiln. My preferred nutrient solution is a combination of liquid seaweed solution and wood vinegar that helps to bring down the pH a bit. Also, these amendments are both suitable when applying char to soil or as an animal feed.  Other alternatives are the addition of vinegar and or apple cider vinegar but that’s starting to get expensive. I like to soak for a fortnight but at least overnight then shovel the char onto a tarp where it sun dries for a couple of days before crushing and bagging.

 

Chars,


Don

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 2:28 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Thanks Frank, good ideas there.

Geoff.

 

On 9 Dec 2019, at 1:18 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

  1. For nutrient enriched char, the flood quenching (ideally from below  (in KON-TIKI-TAS kiln with 2”hose and inlet from a 1m3 square tank by gravity)  / or alternatively from one spot on the side wall with a solid stream of liquid manure that will then eventually well up from below without too much hot steam / potentially effecting the operator and the let this soak in for say 24 hours or so. 
    The effect is a great deal of the mineralised ash dissolves in the liquid and the char particles have time to bond with the nutrients.
  2. Just briefly quenching the hot surface (Be aware of Danger of the VERY HOT Steam) and then as soon as the to is doused, use a shovel to extract the still warm /hot / ultra-dry char into a nutrient rich bathtub like vessel.
  3. After 24 hours or so hammer-mill or grind the coarse char into fine and then allow at least 6 weeks in a 1m3 square tank to compost / mature / cure. … Then apply to soil at 10% by volume of soil or say 2.5litres/m2 
  4. Alternatively bag the biochar after 6 weeks curing time and bring to market / shop etc.  ….

Works well for us!
Cheers 
Frank
Producer, User, Tarder of FRANK’S CHAR branded products in Tasmania 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul S Anderson
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kelpie,  

 

Thanks for those useful tips.   Please respond to these comments:

 

1.  I think that quenching with water does not need to be total  flooding, but just heavy soaking (and losing the excess water out the bottom), and then when cool enough to approach the trough, stir it and quench more, as needed.   This assumes a reasonable source of water.

 

2.  If the higher walls of an upright cylinder assist the process, would not a deeper trench and steeper sides also be better than what seems to be advocated (2 to 3 ft deep).

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

     Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

     Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP 

     Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  to support woodgas (TLUD) projects

     incl. purchase of Woodgas Emission Reduction (WER) carbon credits

     and please tell you friends about these distinctive service efforts.

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

     with pages 88 – 94 about  solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves. 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelpie Wilson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:10 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 

Hi all, 

There are a few different ways to go here. First consideration needs to be quenching. How will you put it out? With no solid bottom, you cannot flood quench. Your options will be to snuff it with a lid and dirt to seal the edges, or to open the kiln at the end, dump the char, spread it thin while spraying with a hose.

 

We came up with a design called the Ring of Fire that uses three curved steel panels to make a cylinder. There are flanges that you clamp together to make it air tight. It has a lid for snuffing and it works very well because it is made to close tolerances so it does not leak air (won't hold water though). However, it cost $1000 to make. You can do the same thing with sheets of roofing bolted together to make a cylinder, but you can't snuff quench it because it leaks air.

Open source plans for the Ring of Fire are up at wilsonbiochar.com

 

Cylinders are actually very nice for making biochar. The tall walls act like an afterburner, holding heat in, so they often burn much cleaner than a trough or shallower pan like the Oregon Kiln. See the work of Dolph Cook in Australia.

 

We also have some folks who are using flat steel panels, heavier gauge than roofing steel, that they bolt together into polygon shapes - hexagon or octagon.

Those work fine and can be very large, but same problem with quenching. The only way to do it is to open the kiln, spread thin and spray with water. I will try to get some pictures of those up on wilsonbiochar.com. I will try to get to that this evening. 

 

-Kelpie


 

-- 

Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890

Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson

 


Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm@...>
 

Hi Tomasso

 

Yes, it was “dry biochar”, with no “charging” or “additives” of any sort. At the time, the List was advocating the widespread use of “dry biochar with no additives” by poor starving African Farmers. Subsequently, it became “recommended practise” to “pre-charge” biochar with various nutrients, compost, microbes, etc.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tomaso Bertoli - CISV
Sent: December 9, 2019 12:45 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

By “Biochar Only” You mean dry charcoal ? no co-composting or nutrient enrichment ?

 

I think that in the past 12 years since 2007 we have fully understood the idea that dry charcoal would suck up everything (water and nutrients) in a poor soil and result in short term negative impact on plants

 

All biomass is different (with reason – try to tell apart apple and pear prunings) and each farmer shall do his or her\best with the available material … hopefully recovering energy while making biochar

 

T

 

Da: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> Per conto di Kevin Chisholm
Inviato: lunedì 9 dicembre 2019 16:51
A:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Oggetto: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Don

 

As is frequently said, “Every biochar is different”, and your interesting procedures seem to add new options! J

 

Certainly, the “TLUD Biochar-making Procedure” would be expected to give a somewhat higher biochar yield than an “open burn”, and considerable work has been done on testing such TLUD Biochars.

 

It is possible that your Biochars may have significantly different properties from “TLUD Biochars”. For example, TLUD Biochars may give the Grower/User superior results in “Applications #1, #3, and #5”, while your biochars may give superior results in “Applications #2, #4, and #6”, and they both may give equivalent results in “Applications #7, #8, and #9”

 

Have you any suggestions, or test results, to suggest which chars would be better for which applications?

 

As I presently see it, “small scale Biochar” (such as your process TLUD, “Kelpie Kiln”, and other smaller scale processes) would appear to be the best for true “biosphere carbon reduction” in that the Administrative costs associated with end use verification would make it difficult for a meaningful percentage of carbon credit payments to actually reach the “Small Scale Producer”, to significantly defray production costs.

 

Clarifying the “special and unique” properties of biochars made in different ways should go a long way to ensuring that the Grower/User to get maximum direct benefits from the particular biochar used in his particular application.  

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Coyne
Sent: December 9, 2019 2:33 AM
To:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

I personally prefer char made in a no oxygen environment (retort) inside a TLUD/Kon-tiki. From my experience, the retort gives a higher carbon content compared to TLUD/Kon-tiki which I would classify as gasification. Both methods produce char so it’s a win win! I empty the retort in a liquid bath whilst its still piping hot straight out the kiln. My preferred nutrient solution is a combination of liquid seaweed solution and wood vinegar that helps to bring down the pH a bit. Also, these amendments are both suitable when applying char to soil or as an animal feed.  Other alternatives are the addition of vinegar and or apple cider vinegar but that’s starting to get expensive. I like to soak for a fortnight but at least overnight then shovel the char onto a tarp where it sun dries for a couple of days before crushing and bagging.

 

Chars,


Don

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 2:28 PM
To:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Thanks Frank, good ideas there.

Geoff.

 

On 9 Dec 2019, at 1:18 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

  1. For nutrient enriched char, the flood quenching (ideally from below  (in KON-TIKI-TAS kiln with 2”hose and inlet from a 1m3 square tank by gravity)  / or alternatively from one spot on the side wall with a solid stream of liquid manure that will then eventually well up from below without too much hot steam / potentially effecting the operator and the let this soak in for say 24 hours or so. 
    The effect is a great deal of the mineralised ash dissolves in the liquid and the char particles have time to bond with the nutrients.
  2. Just briefly quenching the hot surface (Be aware of Danger of the VERY HOT Steam) and then as soon as the to is doused, use a shovel to extract the still warm /hot / ultra-dry char into a nutrient rich bathtub like vessel.
  3. After 24 hours or so hammer-mill or grind the coarse char into fine and then allow at least 6 weeks in a 1m3 square tank to compost / mature / cure. … Then apply to soil at 10% by volume of soil or say 2.5litres/m2 
  4. Alternatively bag the biochar after 6 weeks curing time and bring to market / shop etc.  ….

Works well for us!
Cheers 
Frank
Producer, User, Tarder of FRANK’S CHAR branded products in Tasmania 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul S Anderson
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: 
main@Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kelpie,  

 

Thanks for those useful tips.   Please respond to these comments:

 

1.  I think that quenching with water does not need to be total  flooding, but just heavy soaking (and losing the excess water out the bottom), and then when cool enough to approach the trough, stir it and quench more, as needed.   This assumes a reasonable source of water.

 

2.  If the higher walls of an upright cylinder assist the process, would not a deeper trench and steeper sides also be better than what seems to be advocated (2 to 3 ft deep).

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

     Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

     Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP 

     Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  to support woodgas (TLUD) projects

     incl. purchase of Woodgas Emission Reduction (WER) carbon credits

     and please tell you friends about these distinctive service efforts.

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

     with pages 88 – 94 about  solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves. 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelpie Wilson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:10 PM
To: 
main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 

Hi all, 

There are a few different ways to go here. First consideration needs to be quenching. How will you put it out? With no solid bottom, you cannot flood quench. Your options will be to snuff it with a lid and dirt to seal the edges, or to open the kiln at the end, dump the char, spread it thin while spraying with a hose.

 

We came up with a design called the Ring of Fire that uses three curved steel panels to make a cylinder. There are flanges that you clamp together to make it air tight. It has a lid for snuffing and it works very well because it is made to close tolerances so it does not leak air (won't hold water though). However, it cost $1000 to make. You can do the same thing with sheets of roofing bolted together to make a cylinder, but you can't snuff quench it because it leaks air.

Open source plans for the Ring of Fire are up at wilsonbiochar.com

 

Cylinders are actually very nice for making biochar. The tall walls act like an afterburner, holding heat in, so they often burn much cleaner than a trough or shallower pan like the Oregon Kiln. See the work of Dolph Cook in Australia.

 

We also have some folks who are using flat steel panels, heavier gauge than roofing steel, that they bolt together into polygon shapes - hexagon or octagon.

Those work fine and can be very large, but same problem with quenching. The only way to do it is to open the kiln, spread thin and spray with water. I will try to get some pictures of those up on wilsonbiochar.com. I will try to get to that this evening. 

 

-Kelpie


 

-- 

Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890

Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson

 


Tom Miles
 

Kevin,

 

Anyone who had been adding biochar to their soil for the last 12 years would have an improved soil.

 

For the record, your claim that everyone advocated “dry biochar with no additives” is incorrect. In 2007 several people advocated the use of biochar without understanding how it worked but that is not the same as what you claim. In fact there was a lot of discussion about how biochar functioned and how it should be applied, especially by Eric Knight who was a skilled landscaper and horticulturist. By 2007 there was already good science around biochar. At the same time it was a period of broad experimentation as people explored biochar.  

 

Tom

 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Chisholm
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 9:01 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Tomasso

 

Yes, it was “dry biochar”, with no “charging” or “additives” of any sort. At the time, the List was advocating the widespread use of “dry biochar with no additives” by poor starving African Farmers. Subsequently, it became “recommended practise” to “pre-charge” biochar with various nutrients, compost, microbes, etc.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tomaso Bertoli - CISV
Sent: December 9, 2019 12:45 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

By “Biochar Only” You mean dry charcoal ? no co-composting or nutrient enrichment ?

 

I think that in the past 12 years since 2007 we have fully understood the idea that dry charcoal would suck up everything (water and nutrients) in a poor soil and result in short term negative impact on plants

 

All biomass is different (with reason – try to tell apart apple and pear prunings) and each farmer shall do his or her\best with the available material … hopefully recovering energy while making biochar

 

T

 

Da: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> Per conto di Kevin Chisholm
Inviato: lunedì 9 dicembre 2019 16:51
A:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Oggetto: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Don

 

As is frequently said, “Every biochar is different”, and your interesting procedures seem to add new options! J

 

Certainly, the “TLUD Biochar-making Procedure” would be expected to give a somewhat higher biochar yield than an “open burn”, and considerable work has been done on testing such TLUD Biochars.

 

It is possible that your Biochars may have significantly different properties from “TLUD Biochars”. For example, TLUD Biochars may give the Grower/User superior results in “Applications #1, #3, and #5”, while your biochars may give superior results in “Applications #2, #4, and #6”, and they both may give equivalent results in “Applications #7, #8, and #9”

 

Have you any suggestions, or test results, to suggest which chars would be better for which applications?

 

As I presently see it, “small scale Biochar” (such as your process TLUD, “Kelpie Kiln”, and other smaller scale processes) would appear to be the best for true “biosphere carbon reduction” in that the Administrative costs associated with end use verification would make it difficult for a meaningful percentage of carbon credit payments to actually reach the “Small Scale Producer”, to significantly defray production costs.

 

Clarifying the “special and unique” properties of biochars made in different ways should go a long way to ensuring that the Grower/User to get maximum direct benefits from the particular biochar used in his particular application.  

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Coyne
Sent: December 9, 2019 2:33 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

I personally prefer char made in a no oxygen environment (retort) inside a TLUD/Kon-tiki. From my experience, the retort gives a higher carbon content compared to TLUD/Kon-tiki which I would classify as gasification. Both methods produce char so it’s a win win! I empty the retort in a liquid bath whilst its still piping hot straight out the kiln. My preferred nutrient solution is a combination of liquid seaweed solution and wood vinegar that helps to bring down the pH a bit. Also, these amendments are both suitable when applying char to soil or as an animal feed.  Other alternatives are the addition of vinegar and or apple cider vinegar but that’s starting to get expensive. I like to soak for a fortnight but at least overnight then shovel the char onto a tarp where it sun dries for a couple of days before crushing and bagging.

 

Chars,


Don

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 2:28 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Thanks Frank, good ideas there.

Geoff.

 

On 9 Dec 2019, at 1:18 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

  1. For nutrient enriched char, the flood quenching (ideally from below  (in KON-TIKI-TAS kiln with 2”hose and inlet from a 1m3 square tank by gravity)  / or alternatively from one spot on the side wall with a solid stream of liquid manure that will then eventually well up from below without too much hot steam / potentially effecting the operator and the let this soak in for say 24 hours or so. 
    The effect is a great deal of the mineralised ash dissolves in the liquid and the char particles have time to bond with the nutrients.
  2. Just briefly quenching the hot surface (Be aware of Danger of the VERY HOT Steam) and then as soon as the to is doused, use a shovel to extract the still warm /hot / ultra-dry char into a nutrient rich bathtub like vessel.
  3. After 24 hours or so hammer-mill or grind the coarse char into fine and then allow at least 6 weeks in a 1m3 square tank to compost / mature / cure. … Then apply to soil at 10% by volume of soil or say 2.5litres/m2 
  4. Alternatively bag the biochar after 6 weeks curing time and bring to market / shop etc.  ….

Works well for us!
Cheers 
Frank
Producer, User, Tarder of FRANK’S CHAR branded products in Tasmania 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul S Anderson
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kelpie,  

 

Thanks for those useful tips.   Please respond to these comments:

 

1.  I think that quenching with water does not need to be total  flooding, but just heavy soaking (and losing the excess water out the bottom), and then when cool enough to approach the trough, stir it and quench more, as needed.   This assumes a reasonable source of water.

 

2.  If the higher walls of an upright cylinder assist the process, would not a deeper trench and steeper sides also be better than what seems to be advocated (2 to 3 ft deep).

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

     Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

     Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP 

     Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  to support woodgas (TLUD) projects

     incl. purchase of Woodgas Emission Reduction (WER) carbon credits

     and please tell you friends about these distinctive service efforts.

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

     with pages 88 – 94 about  solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves. 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelpie Wilson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:10 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 

Hi all, 

There are a few different ways to go here. First consideration needs to be quenching. How will you put it out? With no solid bottom, you cannot flood quench. Your options will be to snuff it with a lid and dirt to seal the edges, or to open the kiln at the end, dump the char, spread it thin while spraying with a hose.

 

We came up with a design called the Ring of Fire that uses three curved steel panels to make a cylinder. There are flanges that you clamp together to make it air tight. It has a lid for snuffing and it works very well because it is made to close tolerances so it does not leak air (won't hold water though). However, it cost $1000 to make. You can do the same thing with sheets of roofing bolted together to make a cylinder, but you can't snuff quench it because it leaks air.

Open source plans for the Ring of Fire are up at wilsonbiochar.com

 

Cylinders are actually very nice for making biochar. The tall walls act like an afterburner, holding heat in, so they often burn much cleaner than a trough or shallower pan like the Oregon Kiln. See the work of Dolph Cook in Australia.

 

We also have some folks who are using flat steel panels, heavier gauge than roofing steel, that they bolt together into polygon shapes - hexagon or octagon.

Those work fine and can be very large, but same problem with quenching. The only way to do it is to open the kiln, spread thin and spray with water. I will try to get some pictures of those up on wilsonbiochar.com. I will try to get to that this evening. 

 

-Kelpie


 

-- 

Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890

Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson

 


Teel, Wayne
 

I can affirm Tom’s note.  I got involved with Erich in 2007 when he asked for help on an experimental design with biochar.  From the very beginning Erich advocated mixing raw, crushed biochar (which he did by running over gunny sacks full with a tractor) with manure or in a compost pile, before putting it in/on the soil.  While we do not know the ideal mixture for every soil, we do know that on poorer soils something is better than nothing if it is charged first.  However, even on nutrient rich soils the market gardeners I work with are eager to add more biochar, especially for the increase in drought resilience. 

 

Wayne

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Miles
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 12:34 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kevin,

 

Anyone who had been adding biochar to their soil for the last 12 years would have an improved soil.

 

For the record, your claim that everyone advocated “dry biochar with no additives” is incorrect. In 2007 several people advocated the use of biochar without understanding how it worked but that is not the same as what you claim. In fact there was a lot of discussion about how biochar functioned and how it should be applied, especially by Eric Knight who was a skilled landscaper and horticulturist. By 2007 there was already good science around biochar. At the same time it was a period of broad experimentation as people explored biochar.  

 

Tom

 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Chisholm
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 9:01 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Tomasso

 

Yes, it was “dry biochar”, with no “charging” or “additives” of any sort. At the time, the List was advocating the widespread use of “dry biochar with no additives” by poor starving African Farmers. Subsequently, it became “recommended practise” to “pre-charge” biochar with various nutrients, compost, microbes, etc.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tomaso Bertoli - CISV
Sent: December 9, 2019 12:45 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

By “Biochar Only” You mean dry charcoal ? no co-composting or nutrient enrichment ?

 

I think that in the past 12 years since 2007 we have fully understood the idea that dry charcoal would suck up everything (water and nutrients) in a poor soil and result in short term negative impact on plants

 

All biomass is different (with reason – try to tell apart apple and pear prunings) and each farmer shall do his or her\best with the available material … hopefully recovering energy while making biochar

 

T

 

Da: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> Per conto di Kevin Chisholm
Inviato: lunedì 9 dicembre 2019 16:51
A:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Oggetto: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Don

 

As is frequently said, “Every biochar is different”, and your interesting procedures seem to add new options! J

 

Certainly, the “TLUD Biochar-making Procedure” would be expected to give a somewhat higher biochar yield than an “open burn”, and considerable work has been done on testing such TLUD Biochars.

 

It is possible that your Biochars may have significantly different properties from “TLUD Biochars”. For example, TLUD Biochars may give the Grower/User superior results in “Applications #1, #3, and #5”, while your biochars may give superior results in “Applications #2, #4, and #6”, and they both may give equivalent results in “Applications #7, #8, and #9”

 

Have you any suggestions, or test results, to suggest which chars would be better for which applications?

 

As I presently see it, “small scale Biochar” (such as your process TLUD, “Kelpie Kiln”, and other smaller scale processes) would appear to be the best for true “biosphere carbon reduction” in that the Administrative costs associated with end use verification would make it difficult for a meaningful percentage of carbon credit payments to actually reach the “Small Scale Producer”, to significantly defray production costs.

 

Clarifying the “special and unique” properties of biochars made in different ways should go a long way to ensuring that the Grower/User to get maximum direct benefits from the particular biochar used in his particular application.  

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Coyne
Sent: December 9, 2019 2:33 AM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

I personally prefer char made in a no oxygen environment (retort) inside a TLUD/Kon-tiki. From my experience, the retort gives a higher carbon content compared to TLUD/Kon-tiki which I would classify as gasification. Both methods produce char so it’s a win win! I empty the retort in a liquid bath whilst its still piping hot straight out the kiln. My preferred nutrient solution is a combination of liquid seaweed solution and wood vinegar that helps to bring down the pH a bit. Also, these amendments are both suitable when applying char to soil or as an animal feed.  Other alternatives are the addition of vinegar and or apple cider vinegar but that’s starting to get expensive. I like to soak for a fortnight but at least overnight then shovel the char onto a tarp where it sun dries for a couple of days before crushing and bagging.

 

Chars,


Don

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 2:28 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Thanks Frank, good ideas there.

Geoff.

 

On 9 Dec 2019, at 1:18 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

  1. For nutrient enriched char, the flood quenching (ideally from below  (in KON-TIKI-TAS kiln with 2”hose and inlet from a 1m3 square tank by gravity)  / or alternatively from one spot on the side wall with a solid stream of liquid manure that will then eventually well up from below without too much hot steam / potentially effecting the operator and the let this soak in for say 24 hours or so. 
    The effect is a great deal of the mineralised ash dissolves in the liquid and the char particles have time to bond with the nutrients.
  2. Just briefly quenching the hot surface (Be aware of Danger of the VERY HOT Steam) and then as soon as the to is doused, use a shovel to extract the still warm /hot / ultra-dry char into a nutrient rich bathtub like vessel.
  3. After 24 hours or so hammer-mill or grind the coarse char into fine and then allow at least 6 weeks in a 1m3 square tank to compost / mature / cure. … Then apply to soil at 10% by volume of soil or say 2.5litres/m2 
  4. Alternatively bag the biochar after 6 weeks curing time and bring to market / shop etc.  ….

Works well for us!
Cheers 
Frank
Producer, User, Tarder of FRANK’S CHAR branded products in Tasmania 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul S Anderson
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders@...>
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kelpie,  

 

Thanks for those useful tips.   Please respond to these comments:

 

1.  I think that quenching with water does not need to be total  flooding, but just heavy soaking (and losing the excess water out the bottom), and then when cool enough to approach the trough, stir it and quench more, as needed.   This assumes a reasonable source of water.

 

2.  If the higher walls of an upright cylinder assist the process, would not a deeper trench and steeper sides also be better than what seems to be advocated (2 to 3 ft deep).

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

     Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

     Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP 

     Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org  to support woodgas (TLUD) projects

     incl. purchase of Woodgas Emission Reduction (WER) carbon credits

     and please tell you friends about these distinctive service efforts.

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

     with pages 88 – 94 about  solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves. 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelpie Wilson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:10 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 

Hi all, 

There are a few different ways to go here. First consideration needs to be quenching. How will you put it out? With no solid bottom, you cannot flood quench. Your options will be to snuff it with a lid and dirt to seal the edges, or to open the kiln at the end, dump the char, spread it thin while spraying with a hose.

 

We came up with a design called the Ring of Fire that uses three curved steel panels to make a cylinder. There are flanges that you clamp together to make it air tight. It has a lid for snuffing and it works very well because it is made to close tolerances so it does not leak air (won't hold water though). However, it cost $1000 to make. You can do the same thing with sheets of roofing bolted together to make a cylinder, but you can't snuff quench it because it leaks air.

Open source plans for the Ring of Fire are up at wilsonbiochar.com

 

Cylinders are actually very nice for making biochar. The tall walls act like an afterburner, holding heat in, so they often burn much cleaner than a trough or shallower pan like the Oregon Kiln. See the work of Dolph Cook in Australia.

 

We also have some folks who are using flat steel panels, heavier gauge than roofing steel, that they bolt together into polygon shapes - hexagon or octagon.

Those work fine and can be very large, but same problem with quenching. The only way to do it is to open the kiln, spread thin and spray with water. I will try to get some pictures of those up on wilsonbiochar.com. I will try to get to that this evening. 

 

-Kelpie


 

-- 

Ms.Kelpie Wilson
Wilson Biochar Associates

Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890

Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson

 


Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm@...>
 

Hi Tom

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Miles
Sent: December 9, 2019 1:34 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kevin,

 

Anyone who had been adding biochar to their soil for the last 12 years would have an improved soil.

 

# I would respectfully suggest otherwise. “Some” or “many” would see a significant benefit, especially if they pre-charged the biochar with the appropriate additives.

 

For the record, your claim that everyone advocated “dry biochar with no additives” is incorrect.

 

# My apologies. “Everyone” was too broad a claim. “Many”, or at least “some”, were advocating the direct use of biochar without additives or charging, as late as 2008. “Some” were advocating the use of “biochar without additions or pre-charging” by African Farmers who could not afford fertilizer. This was one of the reasons that prompted me to run these tests, in that my local soil had never been cultivated and was in perhaps equivalently poor condition.

 

In 2007 several people advocated the use of biochar without understanding how it worked but that is not the same as what you claim.

 

I was wrong about 2007; Planting for my test was on 15 June 2008. What I claimed from my test results was basically that “The growth results with “biochar alone” were worse than the results obtained by the Control Plots”, where nothing at all had been added to the soil. This is what the test results showed, and from the results, I concluded that the charcoal probably robbed from the meagre supply of available nutrients, causing a stunting of growth. Even the pots with Seaweed additions showed less growth with charcoal additions, than did the pots with “Seaweed only” and no charcoal additions.

 

#These Test Results were posted to the Terra Preta List as “Seaweed Plus Charcoal Growing Tests”.

 

In fact there was a lot of discussion about how biochar functioned and how it should be applied, especially by Eric Knight who was a skilled landscaper and horticulturist. By 2007 there was already good science around biochar. At the same time it was a period of broad experimentation as people explored biochar.  

 

# I certainly remember Eric Knight’s positive contributions.

 

# Is there anything being put together to help a Grower decide what kinds of biochars would have properties  that were best for particular applications, and what would be the best components for “charging the biochar for the Growers particular soils?

 

# Thanks!

 

Kevin

Tom

 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Chisholm
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 9:01 AM
To:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Tomasso

 

Yes, it was “dry biochar”, with no “charging” or “additives” of any sort. At the time, the List was advocating the widespread use of “dry biochar with no additives” by poor starving African Farmers. Subsequently, it became “recommended practise” to “pre-charge” biochar with various nutrients, compost, microbes, etc.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tomaso Bertoli - CISV
Sent: December 9, 2019 12:45 PM
To:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

By “Biochar Only” You mean dry charcoal ? no co-composting or nutrient enrichment ?

 

I think that in the past 12 years since 2007 we have fully understood the idea that dry charcoal would suck up everything (water and nutrients) in a poor soil and result in short term negative impact on plants

 

All biomass is different (with reason – try to tell apart apple and pear prunings) and each farmer shall do his or her\best with the available material … hopefully recovering energy while making biochar

 

T

 

Da: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> Per conto di Kevin Chisholm
Inviato: lunedì 9 dicembre 2019 16:51
A:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Oggetto: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Hi Don

 

As is frequently said, “Every biochar is different”, and your interesting procedures seem to add new options! J

 

Certainly, the “TLUD Biochar-making Procedure” would be expected to give a somewhat higher biochar yield than an “open burn”, and considerable work has been done on testing such TLUD Biochars.

 

It is possible that your Biochars may have significantly different properties from “TLUD Biochars”. For example, TLUD Biochars may give the Grower/User superior results in “Applications #1, #3, and #5”, while your biochars may give superior results in “Applications #2, #4, and #6”, and they both may give equivalent results in “Applications #7, #8, and #9”

 

Have you any suggestions, or test results, to suggest which chars would be better for which applications?

 

As I presently see it, “small scale Biochar” (such as your process TLUD, “Kelpie Kiln”, and other smaller scale processes) would appear to be the best for true “biosphere carbon reduction” in that the Administrative costs associated with end use verification would make it difficult for a meaningful percentage of carbon credit payments to actually reach the “Small Scale Producer”, to significantly defray production costs.

 

Clarifying the “special and unique” properties of biochars made in different ways should go a long way to ensuring that the Grower/User to get maximum direct benefits from the particular biochar used in his particular application.  

 

(In case you may not be aware of it,  in about 2007, I ran tests with “Gasifier Char produced from Wood Pellets”, in a poor soil, and found that the plot with “Char + Seaweed” gave far superior results compared to the “Control Soil”, but that “Biochar Only” actually gave results that were worse than the Control Soil. I posted the test results to the “Terra Preta List”, and you can probably find the results there. )

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Coyne
Sent: December 9, 2019 2:33 AM
To:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

I personally prefer char made in a no oxygen environment (retort) inside a TLUD/Kon-tiki. From my experience, the retort gives a higher carbon content compared to TLUD/Kon-tiki which I would classify as gasification. Both methods produce char so it’s a win win! I empty the retort in a liquid bath whilst its still piping hot straight out the kiln. My preferred nutrient solution is a combination of liquid seaweed solution and wood vinegar that helps to bring down the pH a bit. Also, these amendments are both suitable when applying char to soil or as an animal feed.  Other alternatives are the addition of vinegar and or apple cider vinegar but that’s starting to get expensive. I like to soak for a fortnight but at least overnight then shovel the char onto a tarp where it sun dries for a couple of days before crushing and bagging.

 

Chars,


Don

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Monday, 9 December 2019 2:28 PM
To:
main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Thanks Frank, good ideas there.

Geoff.

 

On 9 Dec 2019, at 1:18 pm, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

  1. For nutrient enriched char, the flood quenching (ideally from below  (in KON-TIKI-TAS kiln with 2”hose and inlet from a 1m3 square tank by gravity)  / or alternatively from one spot on the side wall with a solid stream of liquid manure that will then eventually well up from below without too much hot steam / potentially effecting the operator and the let this soak in for say 24 hours or so. 
    The effect is a great deal of the mineralised ash dissolves in the liquid and the char particles have time to bond with the nutrients.
  2. Just briefly quenching the hot surface (Be aware of Danger of the VERY HOT Steam) and then as soon as the to is doused, use a shovel to extract the still warm /hot / ultra-dry char into a nutrient rich bathtub like vessel.
  3. After 24 hours or so hammer-mill or grind the coarse char into fine and then allow at least 6 weeks in a 1m3 square tank to compost / mature / cure. … Then apply to soil at 10% by volume of soil or say 2.5litres/m2 
  4. Alternatively bag the biochar after 6 weeks curing time and bring to market / shop etc.  ….

Works well for us!
Cheers 
Frank
Producer, User, Tarder of FRANK’S CHAR branded products in Tasmania 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul S Anderson
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: 
main@Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Anderson, Paul <
psanders@...>
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

Kelpie,  

 

Thanks for those useful tips.   Please respond to these comments:

 

1.  I think that quenching with water does not need to be total  flooding, but just heavy soaking (and losing the excess water out the bottom), and then when cool enough to approach the trough, stir it and quench more, as needed.   This assumes a reasonable source of water.

 

2.  If the higher walls of an upright cylinder assist the process, would not a deeper trench and steeper sides also be better than what seems to be advocated (2 to 3 ft deep).

 

Paul

 

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From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kelpie Wilson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:10 PM
To: 
main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...] 

Hi all, 

There are a few different ways to go here. First consideration needs to be quenching. How will you put it out? With no solid bottom, you cannot flood quench. Your options will be to snuff it with a lid and dirt to seal the edges, or to open the kiln at the end, dump the char, spread it thin while spraying with a hose.

 

We came up with a design called the Ring of Fire that uses three curved steel panels to make a cylinder. There are flanges that you clamp together to make it air tight. It has a lid for snuffing and it works very well because it is made to close tolerances so it does not leak air (won't hold water though). However, it cost $1000 to make. You can do the same thing with sheets of roofing bolted together to make a cylinder, but you can't snuff quench it because it leaks air.

Open source plans for the Ring of Fire are up at wilsonbiochar.com

 

Cylinders are actually very nice for making biochar. The tall walls act like an afterburner, holding heat in, so they often burn much cleaner than a trough or shallower pan like the Oregon Kiln. See the work of Dolph Cook in Australia.

 

We also have some folks who are using flat steel panels, heavier gauge than roofing steel, that they bolt together into polygon shapes - hexagon or octagon.

Those work fine and can be very large, but same problem with quenching. The only way to do it is to open the kiln, spread thin and spray with water. I will try to get some pictures of those up on wilsonbiochar.com. I will try to get to that this evening. 

 

-Kelpie


 

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Email: kelpiew@...
Mobile: 541-218-9890

Time zone: Pacific Time, USA
Skype: kelpie.wilson

 


Norm Baker
 

We have been adding biochar in the fall to a garden plot for several years until we reached the ideal 10%, It was always quenched, not loaded with nutrients and not crushed. After a winter of adsorbing whatever nutrients it could from the soil and some chicken manure, the following spring we did a soil test at Logan Labs to see what nutrients were needed and we applied those needed nutrients. Our garden success has been phenomenal. 

Norm


Rick Wilson
 

Remember biochar particles are little air balls.  It takes time to get water into them, so they can reach their potential, even if you pre-process the material it is often difficult to displace the air because the surfaces are often hydrophobic.   

Rick

On Monday, December 9, 2019, 08:55:02 PM PST, Norm Baker <ntbakerphd@...> wrote:


We have been adding biochar in the fall to a garden plot for several years until we reached the ideal 10%, It was always quenched, not loaded with nutrients and not crushed. After a winter of adsorbing whatever nutrients it could from the soil and some chicken manure, the following spring we did a soil test at Logan Labs to see what nutrients were needed and we applied those needed nutrients. Our garden success has been phenomenal. 

Norm


Teel, Wayne
 

Rick, I make some biochar with my students in a Kon-Tiki flame cap kiln and we quench with water.  When the biochar is hot it seems to absorb water like a sponge.  When air cooled in my retort and I add water later it acts hydrophobic as you suggest.  Have you noticed this?  I also note that it is much easier to grind in a chipper shredder when wet since it does not produce massive clouds of dust like the dry biochar.


Wayne


Wayne S. Teel
701 Carrier Drive
ISAT MSC 4102
Harrisonburg, VA 22807
Phone: 540-568-2798
Fax: 540-568-2761
 


From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> on behalf of Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 1:01:50 AM
To: main@biochar.groups.io; main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use
 
Remember biochar particles are little air balls.  It takes time to get water into them, so they can reach their potential, even if you pre-process the material it is often difficult to displace the air because the surfaces are often hydrophobic.   

Rick

On Monday, December 9, 2019, 08:55:02 PM PST, Norm Baker <ntbakerphd@...> wrote:


We have been adding biochar in the fall to a garden plot for several years until we reached the ideal 10%, It was always quenched, not loaded with nutrients and not crushed. After a winter of adsorbing whatever nutrients it could from the soil and some chicken manure, the following spring we did a soil test at Logan Labs to see what nutrients were needed and we applied those needed nutrients. Our garden success has been phenomenal. 

Norm


Eli Fishpaw
 

When you say 10% is biochar is ideal, what depth of soil defines this proportion?  Obviously, the deeper you consider, the more char that is needed.  My guess is 6".  Congratulations on your success.  I hope to duplicate.  

Eli 


----- Original Message -----
From: Norm Baker [mailto:ntbakerphd@...]
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 20:54:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Properties of Various Biochars; Was: RE: [Biochar] Portable, dismantlable, trough flame cap, for farm scale use

We have been adding biochar in the fall to a garden plot for several years until we reached the ideal 10%, It was always quenched, not loaded with nutrients and not crushed. After a winter of adsorbing whatever nutrients it could from the soil and some chicken manure, the following spring we did a soil test at Logan Labs to see what nutrients were needed and we applied those needed nutrients. Our garden success has been phenomenal. 
 
Norm