Topics

Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook #patent


Stephen Joseph
 

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.


Laurent Chabanne
 

Thanks Stephen, this is great!

patents just have to show innovation to be accepted. To get money from the investors, they just need to be there, they don't need to be actually useful in any other way than just existing.


Geoff Thomas
 

Rick, you are displaying a point of view, and it is true that in the area of IP, everything is personal, as innovation, let alone creativity is very rare.
However times have changed from the traditional point of view, and indeed what has changed?  - Leibnitz invented Calculus, so I believe, Tunnels can not be built without calculus, so Leibnitz is building Tunnels to this day, - but not patented, - probably just as well , otherwise the Patent holders, - by now a mulltinational organisation with a neo-Liberal rent seeking point of view, would be charging so much that Tunnels would be un-affordable.
We now live in a world in a state of self destruction caused by unrestrained greed, people trying to find the answers through their own given talents and selflessness find it difficult to be heard, only people with money get heard, - we have to stop believing that Rick, - this forum is a testament to that.

Also, fundamental attitudes have changed over the last few hundred years, we now no longer live in the age of Truth, we now live in the age of The Good.
Good is more flexible than truth, and it applies to specific situations, so each invention is a specific situation.
Some inventions that may inconvenience the super rich, must get out, or most of us will die, - even the stupid super rich.
How we nurture new knowledge and inventions is a sacred thing, - it cannot be left up to traditional organisations like Patent offices, filled with Bureaucratic politics assumptions and corruption, it can only be nurtured by the actions of committed groups of interest, imho, such as the several forums world wide exploring the new ideas coming up. - Cheers, Geoff Thomas.  


On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:22 am, Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 
 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.




<Charcoal Handbook1.pdf><Charcoal Handbook2.pdf>


Geoff Thomas
 

Rick, you are displaying a point of view, and it is true that in the area of IP, everything is personal, as innovation, let alone creativity is very rare.
However times have changed from the traditional point of view, and indeed what has changed?  - Leibnitz invented Calculus, so I believe, Tunnels can not be built without calculus, so Leibnitz is building Tunnels to this day, - but not patented, - probably just as well , otherwise the Patent holders, - by now a mulltinational organisation with a neo-Liberal rent seeking point of view, would be charging so much that Tunnels would be un-affordable.
We now live in a world in a state of self destruction caused by unrestrained greed, people trying to find the answers through their own given talents and selflessness find it difficult to be heard, only people with money get heard, - we have to stop believing that Rick, - this forum is a testament to that.

Also, fundamental attitudes have changed over the last few hundred years, we now no longer live in the age of Truth, we now live in the age of The Good.
Good is more flexible than truth, and it applies to specific situations, so each invention is a specific situation.
Some inventions that may inconvenience the super rich, must get out, or most of us will die, - even the stupid super rich.
How we nurture new knowledge and inventions is a sacred thing, - it cannot be left up to traditional organisations like Patent offices, filled with Bureaucratic politics assumptions and corruption, it can only be nurtured by the actions of committed groups of interest, imho, such as the several forums world wide exploring the new ideas coming up. - Cheers, Geoff Thomas.  


On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:22 am, Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 
 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.




<Charcoal Handbook1.pdf><Charcoal Handbook2.pdf>


Geoff Thomas
 

Rick, you are displaying a point of view, and it is true that in the area of IP, everything is personal, as innovation, let alone creativity is very rare.
However times have changed from the traditional point of view, and indeed what has changed?  - Leibnitz invented Calculus, so I believe, Tunnels can not be built without calculus, so Leibnitz is building Tunnels to this day, - but not patented, - probably just as well , otherwise the Patent holders, - by now a mulltinational organisation with a neo-Liberal rent seeking point of view, would be charging so much that Tunnels would be un-affordable.
We now live in a world in a state of self destruction caused by unrestrained greed, people trying to find the answers through their own given talents and selflessness find it difficult to be heard, only people with money get heard, - we have to stop believing that Rick, - this forum is a testament to that.

Also, fundamental attitudes have changed over the last few hundred years, we now no longer live in the age of Truth, we now live in the age of The Good.
Good is more flexible than truth, and it applies to specific situations, so each invention is a specific situation.
Some inventions that may inconvenience the super rich, must get out, or most of us will die, - even the stupid super rich.
How we nurture new knowledge and inventions is a sacred thing, - it cannot be left up to traditional organisations like Patent offices, filled with Bureaucratic politics assumptions and corruption, it can only be nurtured by the actions of committed groups of interest, imho, such as the several forums world wide exploring the new ideas coming up. - Cheers, Geoff Thomas.  


On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:22 am, Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 
 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.




<Charcoal Handbook1.pdf><Charcoal Handbook2.pdf>


Mark Ludlow
 

Patents are not easy . In tech industries the are targeted at technologies that are linked synergistically to extant  knowledge bases that are now being gathered together and re-focused. One can only rarely take Giant Steps. Tom miles is a big-stepper. He has such a broad understanding of the “Large-Scale utility of recycled Carbon”.

There are many contributors. At some point, “Compared to What?, becomes an evaluation mantra. Please let us get back, on track. There is so much work to do and such limited resources. 

I am ready to lend help to a Plan, pro bono.

Mark Ludlow
mark@...
503.739.1157
 


From: main@biochar.groups.io on behalf of Geoff Thomas <wind@...>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 9:55 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook
 
Rick, you are displaying a point of view, and it is true that in the area of IP, everything is personal, as innovation, let alone creativity is very rare.
However times have changed from the traditional point of view, and indeed what has changed?  - Leibnitz invented Calculus, so I believe, Tunnels can not be built without calculus, so Leibnitz is building Tunnels to this day, - but not patented, - probably just as well , otherwise the Patent holders, - by now a mulltinational organisation with a neo-Liberal rent seeking point of view, would be charging so much that Tunnels would be un-affordable.
We now live in a world in a state of self destruction caused by unrestrained greed, people trying to find the answers through their own given talents and selflessness find it difficult to be heard, only people with money get heard, - we have to stop believing that Rick, - this forum is a testament to that.

Also, fundamental attitudes have changed over the last few hundred years, we now no longer live in the age of Truth, we now live in the age of The Good.
Good is more flexible than truth, and it applies to specific situations, so each invention is a specific situation.
Some inventions that may inconvenience the super rich, must get out, or most of us will die, - even the stupid super rich.
How we nurture new knowledge and inventions is a sacred thing, - it cannot be left up to traditional organisations like Patent offices, filled with Bureaucratic politics assumptions and corruption, it can only be nurtured by the actions of committed groups of interest, imho, such as the several forums world wide exploring the new ideas coming up. - Cheers, Geoff Thomas.  


On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:22 am, Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 
 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.




<Charcoal Handbook1.pdf><Charcoal Handbook2.pdf>


Mark Ludlow
 

Dynamite, Geoff!

You nailed it, but don’t we still need  a lot of geopolitical things to happen, to, “grease the  skids?”

We can make it!  It it tanks

 


From: main@biochar.groups.io on behalf of Geoff Thomas <wind@...>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 10:08 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook
 
Rick, you are displaying a point of view, and it is true that in the area of IP, everything is personal, as innovation, let alone creativity is very rare.
However times have changed from the traditional point of view, and indeed what has changed?  - Leibnitz invented Calculus, so I believe, Tunnels can not be built without calculus, so Leibnitz is building Tunnels to this day, - but not patented, - probably just as well , otherwise the Patent holders, - by now a mulltinational organisation with a neo-Liberal rent seeking point of view, would be charging so much that Tunnels would be un-affordable.
We now live in a world in a state of self destruction caused by unrestrained greed, people trying to find the answers through their own given talents and selflessness find it difficult to be heard, only people with money get heard, - we have to stop believing that Rick, - this forum is a testament to that.

Also, fundamental attitudes have changed over the last few hundred years, we now no longer live in the age of Truth, we now live in the age of The Good.
Good is more flexible than truth, and it applies to specific situations, so each invention is a specific situation.
Some inventions that may inconvenience the super rich, must get out, or most of us will die, - even the stupid super rich.
How we nurture new knowledge and inventions is a sacred thing, - it cannot be left up to traditional organisations like Patent offices, filled with Bureaucratic politics assumptions and corruption, it can only be nurtured by the actions of committed groups of interest, imho, such as the several forums world wide exploring the new ideas coming up. - Cheers, Geoff Thomas.  


On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:22 am, Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 
 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.




<Charcoal Handbook1.pdf><Charcoal Handbook2.pdf>


Geoff Thomas
 

Mark, who are you replying to? - and how?

On 18 Jan 2020, at 3:50 pm, Geoff Thomas <wind@...> wrote:

Rick, you are displaying a point of view, and it is true that in the area of IP, everything is personal, as innovation, let alone creativity is very rare.
However times have changed from the traditional point of view, and indeed what has changed?  - Leibnitz invented Calculus, so I believe, Tunnels can not be built without calculus, so Leibnitz is building Tunnels to this day, - but not patented, - probably just as well , otherwise the Patent holders, - by now a mulltinational organisation with a neo-Liberal rent seeking point of view, would be charging so much that Tunnels would be un-affordable.
We now live in a world in a state of self destruction caused by unrestrained greed, people trying to find the answers through their own given talents and selflessness find it difficult to be heard, only people with money get heard, - we have to stop believing that Rick, - this forum is a testament to that.

Also, fundamental attitudes have changed over the last few hundred years, we now no longer live in the age of Truth, we now live in the age of The Good.
Good is more flexible than truth, and it applies to specific situations, so each invention is a specific situation.
Some inventions that may inconvenience the super rich, must get out, or most of us will die, - even the stupid super rich.
How we nurture new knowledge and inventions is a sacred thing, - it cannot be left up to traditional organisations like Patent offices, filled with Bureaucratic politics assumptions and corruption, it can only be nurtured by the actions of committed groups of interest, imho, such as the several forums world wide exploring the new ideas coming up. - Cheers, Geoff Thomas.  


On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:22 am, Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all, 

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014. 
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality. 
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 
 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.




<Charcoal Handbook1.pdf><Charcoal Handbook2.pdf>



Frank Strie
 

Yes Geoff Thomas, and so be it!
Frank

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Geoff Thomas
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2020 5:28 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook

 

Mark, who are you replying to? - and how?

 

On 18 Jan 2020, at 3:50 pm, Geoff Thomas <wind@...> wrote:

 

Rick, you are displaying a point of view, and it is true that in the area of IP, everything is personal, as innovation, let alone creativity is very rare.

However times have changed from the traditional point of view, and indeed what has changed?  - Leibnitz invented Calculus, so I believe, Tunnels can not be built without calculus, so Leibnitz is building Tunnels to this day, - but not patented, - probably just as well , otherwise the Patent holders, - by now a mulltinational organisation with a neo-Liberal rent seeking point of view, would be charging so much that Tunnels would be un-affordable.

We now live in a world in a state of self destruction caused by unrestrained greed, people trying to find the answers through their own given talents and selflessness find it difficult to be heard, only people with money get heard, - we have to stop believing that Rick, - this forum is a testament to that.

 

Also, fundamental attitudes have changed over the last few hundred years, we now no longer live in the age of Truth, we now live in the age of The Good.

Good is more flexible than truth, and it applies to specific situations, so each invention is a specific situation.

Some inventions that may inconvenience the super rich, must get out, or most of us will die, - even the stupid super rich.

How we nurture new knowledge and inventions is a sacred thing, - it cannot be left up to traditional organisations like Patent offices, filled with Bureaucratic politics assumptions and corruption, it can only be nurtured by the actions of committed groups of interest, imho, such as the several forums world wide exploring the new ideas coming up. - Cheers, Geoff Thomas.  

 

 

On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:22 am, Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:

 

But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

 

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

 

Regards

Stephen

 

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Frank, 

 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

 

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

 

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

 

Rick

 

 

 

On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:

 

 

RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all, 

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014. 
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality. 
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.

 

 

 

<Charcoal Handbook1.pdf><Charcoal Handbook2.pdf>

 

 


d.michael.shafer@gmail.com
 

I, too, am an open source guy, in part because, like Stephen, I don't think that most of the grassroots, people helping development in biochar are interested in innovative (patentable) technology. At the bottom where we work, there have been two issues from the start. The first is getting simple enough, low-tech enough, low-cost enough, do-it-yourself enough biochar making techniques into the hands of billions of very small farmers. (Such technology may be hard to develop, but its deliberately generic nature makes in unpatentable.) The second is innovating an organization that can train small farmers to make and sell biochar and biochar-based products sustainably so that they have a continuing incentive (profits) not to burn, but to biochar. (Organizational innovation, especially of lowly social enterprises, is not patentable, and no one funds the ongoing forever cost of paying small farmers to make biochar.)

The point is simple: while in the advanced industrial countries there may be reason for patents as people innovate ever more complex production and product technologies, in the developing world where most of the world's population lives, innovation is simply not patentable and therefore the entire discussion is moot.

This, of course, leaves hanging the question of what does/will energize forward movement. I wish I believed that there exists a cadre of save the world doers and innovators champing at the bit to get at it. In my personal experience, it is pretty lonely out her.

M

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 8:24 AM Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:
But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.


Laurent Chabanne
 

Geoff, patents are only valid for 20 years. then it's open to all.

They are a trade off: you make public your invention, and we give you a 20-year exclusivity. Then anybody can use it.

If you are a small company, they can be great: in some situations, without a patent, a big company can just copy what you do and make it cheaper and/or better until you die.


mikethewormguy
 

To The List.........

Before the plan.....what are the questions....?

It would be very helpful for the folks on this list to create a list of questions regarding th use of char for XYZ applications..

We could start with general application areas like food, fuel, fertilizer, feed, fodder.....?  (The 5F list).....

Make this effort "solution" focused and not trying to 'prove' this or that.....  

The importance of questions is based on knowing that if one only knows how than they can only improve a process but if one knows why than they can innovate....

Innovation is a contact sport .....?????

I am happy to be on Team Earth humming in the key of  " C ".....

Your thoughts.....?

my 2 cents.....

Mike, a WHY's guy....





Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


DHAN HURLEY
 

Hi,

Patents are expensive and generally meaningless for , especially , a small company.
Unless you have enough money, usually a lot, to fight a Court Case it is better not to make one.

In certain cases Copyrights ( or Copyleft ) can be better.
Read some articles from CREATIVE COMMONS.

They are a big hinderance to development and the Government / Military etc. can "step-in" at any time and seize it.

Read the article by G. Wisemann (engineer) about PATENT FREE on http://eagle-research.com/ ( BROWN'S GAS: PLANS, MACHINES,RESEARCH etc. ).

Remember there are many ways to "Skin-a-Cat" and if the "Big-Boys" want to stop you they can.

An example is the LUFO STORM LANTERN with a THERMOELECTRIC GENERATOR and integrated RADIO ( for local and weather news )
and POWER SOCKET ( for a TRANSMITTER, PHONE CHARGER etc. ). This was designed by some Swiss people i know.
The UNITED NATIONS sponsored them; to 6 years of "theater". In the end nothing happened and the person i was friends with had a DEBT
of CHF 400,000 ( approx. EURO 380,000 ).
I can give you other examples.

Look at the example of my experiments with TLUD's with a THERMOELECTRIC GENERATOR ( possible to make from scrap materials etc. ),
a JOULE THIEF CIRCUIT ( a very simple Self-Resonant Voltage Booster, also made from scrap ) and an enhancement that uses the
HEAVISIDE EM ENERGY component ( which is normally wasted, undiverged, and is TRILLIONS of times greater than the POYNTING EM ENERGY
that is normally used,diverged. ). This last refinement is entering into OVER-UNITY PHYSICS , and that is forbidden-zone and highly repressed.

A BOHREN TYPE DEVICE ( incredibly simple to build from scrap materials ) could also be used.

I am NOT going to debate with anyone about "How many Angels can dance on a pin".

This is Patent-Free, Open Source and for the people.
I have very little money but a mountain of pride and memories.

In One World,

Dhan Hurley


DIASPORA COMMUNITY.... My PROFILE PAGE :-

IRISH, MUSICIAN, POET, PHYSICS, “FREE-ENERGY”, LINUX PROFI, ALTERNATIVE SYSTEMS, GEOPOLYMERS, ALTERNATIVE HEALTH-FARMING-MATERIALS,ORMUS, MYSTIC, etc.

https://despora.de/people/6d39a7e04a610132027a42cdb1fcde73



                                                   *****************************************************************************************************

On Saturday, January 18, 2020, 2:39:08 PM GMT+1, Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io <laurentbiochar=yahoo.fr@groups.io> wrote:



 Geoff, patents are only valid for 20 years. then it's open to all.

They are a trade off: you make public your invention, and we give you a 20-year exclusivity. Then anybody can use it.

If you are a small company, they can be great: in some situations, without a patent, a big company can just copy what you do and make it cheaper and/or better until you die.


Kevin Chisholm
 

Hi Mike

 

My view of the “Biochar Opportunity” is that it is it is presently being driven by “Producer Push” and is seriously lacking in “Market Pull”. Someone once said “If you build it, they will come.” I would thus suggest that “If you build Markets for biochar, Customers will come.”

 

Biochar is not a panacea. It is useless unless it can partially or totally remove a limiting soil deficiency. Simply adding biochar to an “unknown soil” is nothing but guesswork.  Additionally, the problem is more complex, in that “every biochar is different”. Furthermore, it is well known that unless a biochar is “precharged” in some manner, growth and yield results are likely to be inferior to the control plot.

 

I would suggest that “Scientific Biochar Market Development” must start with two basic requirements:

1: A soil analysis, quantifying its nutrient  and “physical property” deficiencies

2: A biochar analysis, quantifying the degree to which it can economically resolve the various soil deficiencies.

3: A determination of the remaining deficiencies, and an estimate of “existing nutrient capture” that the biochar creates.

4: A determination of other nutrients that must be added, to bring soil quality up to an acceptable level. (eg., organic matter, compost, trace elements, macro nutrients, enzymes, bacteria and fungal additives, etc)

 

With such factual information, it would be easy for a Soil Technician to prescribe the correct biochar and the necessary additional ingredients, and their quantities to make the soil acceptable to the Farmer/Grower.

 

With such an approach, Rick’s observed “Biochar 50% Success, 50% Failure Rate” could be remarkably improved.

 

Does this “hang together” for you? How could this approach be improved upon?

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikethewormguy via Groups.Io
Sent: January 18, 2020 12:51 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook

 

To The List.........

 

Before the plan.....what are the questions....?

 

It would be very helpful for the folks on this list to create a list of questions regarding th use of char for XYZ applications..

 

We could start with general application areas like food, fuel, fertilizer, feed, fodder.....?  (The 5F list).....

 

Make this effort "solution" focused and not trying to 'prove' this or that.....  

 

The importance of questions is based on knowing that if one only knows how than they can only improve a process but if one knows why than they can innovate....

 

Innovation is a contact sport .....?????

 

I am happy to be on Team Earth humming in the key of  " C ".....

 

Your thoughts.....?

 

my 2 cents.....

 

Mike, a WHY's guy....

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 


Tom Miles
 

Posts on this forum and current biochar production and sales show that many people who know when and how to use biochar. Several use biochar and soils analyses as tools to guide or monitor their practice. Some are more successful at pricing, quality, and delivery than others. Some biochar businesses are more successful than others because of factors unrelated to the product and use. We find that it is more common that people are totally unaware of biochar and its uses.   

 

Recent analyses of many research projects demonstrate that the odds are better than 50:50. See Dr. Bruno Glaser’s (2019) 20 minute presentation on “Biochar research – State of the art” on the IBI website https://biochar-international.org/  (Note Dr. Glaser’s cautions regarding measuring the quality of meta-analyses.) Or study a recent  meta-analysis of the relationship between characteristics of biochars and soils:

 

Combined effects of biochar properties and soil conditions on plant growth: A meta-analysis

Effect of biochar/soil properties on plant productivity response (PPR) was examined.
Grand mean of PPR was estimated to be 16.0% regardless of biochar/soil conditions.
PPR varied from −31.8% to 974% under different biochar/soil combinations.
Design of functional biochar according to initial soil conditions is needed.

Biochar application in agricultural soils can be highly beneficial to plant productivity. However, how plant productivity response (PPR) [% change of plant yield from control (without biochar application)] to biochar application is affected by biochar properties, soil conditions, and their combinations is still unclear. Therefore, a meta-analysis based on 1254 paired comparisons from 153 published studies was conducted. The grand mean of PPR was estimated to be 16.0 ± 1.3%, regardless of biochar/soil conditions. Meanwhile, a large variation of PPR from −31.8% to 974% was also observed under different biochar or/and soil conditions. Specifically, biochar properties including pH, cation exchange capacity (CEC), contents of carbon and ash, bulk density, and soil conditions including texture, pH, CEC, nitrogen content, and C/N ratio significantly affected the results of PPR to biochar addition. Furthermore, the liming effect, improvement in soil physical structure, and increased nutrient use efficiency were suggested as the key mechanisms for the positive PPR in biochar-amended soils. Moreover, PPR could be significantly affected (strengthened or weakened) by the combined effect of biochar properties and soil conditions. Overall, the application of biochars with high ash content (or low carbon content) into sandy soils or acidic soils is highly recommended for increasing plant productivity. This meta-analysis will provide helpful information to elucidate the combined effect of biochar properties and soil conditions on plant growth, which is critical for developing engineered biochar with specific functionality to promote plant production and food security.

Biochar application in agricultural soils can be highly beneficial to plant productivity. However, how plant productivity response (PPR) [% change of …

 

 

SCIENCEDIRECT.COM

Combined effects of biochar properties and soil conditions on plant growth: A meta-analysis

Biochar application in agricultural soils can be highly beneficial to plant productivity. However, how plant productivity response (PPR) [% change of …


Science of The Total Environment

Available online 15 January 2020, 136635

In Press, Journal Pre-proofWhat are Journal Pre-proof articles?

Yanhui Daia HaoZheng Zhixiang Jiang BaoshanXing

Received 2 November 2019, Revised 5 January 2020, Accepted 9 January 2020, Available online 15 January 2020.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scitotenv.2020.136635

 

 

Tom

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Chisholm
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook

 

Hi Mike

 

My view of the “Biochar Opportunity” is that it is it is presently being driven by “Producer Push” and is seriously lacking in “Market Pull”. Someone once said “If you build it, they will come.” I would thus suggest that “If you build Markets for biochar, Customers will come.”

 

Biochar is not a panacea. It is useless unless it can partially or totally remove a limiting soil deficiency. Simply adding biochar to an “unknown soil” is nothing but guesswork.  Additionally, the problem is more complex, in that “every biochar is different”. Furthermore, it is well known that unless a biochar is “precharged” in some manner, growth and yield results are likely to be inferior to the control plot.

 

I would suggest that “Scientific Biochar Market Development” must start with two basic requirements:

1: A soil analysis, quantifying its nutrient  and “physical property” deficiencies

2: A biochar analysis, quantifying the degree to which it can economically resolve the various soil deficiencies.

3: A determination of the remaining deficiencies, and an estimate of “existing nutrient capture” that the biochar creates.

4: A determination of other nutrients that must be added, to bring soil quality up to an acceptable level. (eg., organic matter, compost, trace elements, macro nutrients, enzymes, bacteria and fungal additives, etc)

 

With such factual information, it would be easy for a Soil Technician to prescribe the correct biochar and the necessary additional ingredients, and their quantities to make the soil acceptable to the Farmer/Grower.

 

With such an approach, Rick’s observed “Biochar 50% Success, 50% Failure Rate” could be remarkably improved.

 

Does this “hang together” for you? How could this approach be improved upon?

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikethewormguy via Groups.Io
Sent: January 18, 2020 12:51 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook

 

To The List.........

 

Before the plan.....what are the questions....?

 

It would be very helpful for the folks on this list to create a list of questions regarding th use of char for XYZ applications..

 

We could start with general application areas like food, fuel, fertilizer, feed, fodder.....?  (The 5F list).....

 

Make this effort "solution" focused and not trying to 'prove' this or that.....  

 

The importance of questions is based on knowing that if one only knows how than they can only improve a process but if one knows why than they can innovate....

 

Innovation is a contact sport .....?????

 

I am happy to be on Team Earth humming in the key of  " C ".....

 

Your thoughts.....?

 

my 2 cents.....

 

Mike, a WHY's guy....

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 


James Bledsoe
 

definition and entomology 
adjective
  1. 1.
    easily recognizable; obvious.
    "she was smiling with patent insincerity"


  2. Latin patent- ‘lying open’, from the verb patere 

  3. We are mainly talking here about the noun when the word 's origin is the adjective sense.
    To say something is 'patently obvious' is at the root of my concern or point of view. 
    The idea of a patent is to share our inventions. As inducement to sharing we provide rights and financial protections.
    I enjoy very much looking up patents to see how something is done.
    It is also in the spirit of sharing that Elon Musk has recently "open sourced" Tesla patents. 
    Here is more on that 
    https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ca6c332f-2cc5-401b-b80d-36473d0754c7
    If you do not want to be copied do not patent. Think here of the formula for Coca-Cola.   


On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 5:24 PM Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen@...> wrote:
But Rick patents have to really show innovation or then all that happens is the industry is stymied and a lot of money is wasted on litigation.

Here is another couple of Japanese handbooks.  I have a lot more

Regards
Stephen

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 11:10 AM Rick Wilson via Groups.Io <rick012=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Frank, 

(thanks for sharing your website and story, very impressive achievement!  We loved Tasmania visiting often when we lived in Melbourne, Freycinet Chardonnay from the East Coast is my favorite wine!)

I agree that open source information certainly can help those positioned to go off the grid and leverage and deploy these biochar and AG technologies at a localized scale. Assuming of course you can make sense of the thousands of academic papers on the subject, and have the time to do so.  If you can, you should do it. In your words, Climate Action = race with time. 

But I don't believe that self sufficiency, like you have achieved, as commendable as it is, is practical for most of the earth's population. 

The impact of Climate change will be too big and will happen fast, with most people living in cities (think, what happens to the 2.75M people in Miami as groundwater starts to flood the sewers from rising sea waters, probably before I retire).  These people can not start farming to feed themselves.  They will be displaced. Needing a big industrial AG complex, and innovations that do not exist today.  Relying on investors that require the guarantee of patent protection to justify their risk, in the end, preventing starvation.  

For instance, patents are why we have breakthrough drugs, so the companies can justify the financial risk of developing them. You would have have cholesterol medicine, antibiotics, chemotherapy drugs, etc, with open source.

Rick



On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 10:28:33 PM PST, Frank Strie <frank.strie@...> wrote:


RE: “No patent. No money.  No industry. No solution.”


Hello all,

This subject about the classic “Patent protection”(Cards to the Chest) touches on the very question of reason WHAT motivates us and WHY are we are even involved in the first instance in the whole Biochar, FiltrationChar, FeedChar, ConstructionChar, and specialised DesignerChars topic.
If it is about Carbon Climate Action = a race with time, if it is about assisting less fortunate people and communities in problematic situations to leap frog out of such misery, is it to have tools and methods that assist satiation and hygiene, hunger, food quality, air quality, water quality ,  hydrology, landscape restoration, pro-active flammability risk reduction upcycling of wastes, etc …, the open source information availability spreads very fast without delay, As a classic example we have seen it happen in the revolutionary spread and success of the Kon-Tiki style deep cone, flame curtain kilns, as it spread to,  was copied and modified in more than 70 countries in 3 years since 2014.
The way the Ithaka Institute and Associates (like myself) handled this urgent topic and the  way we shared and exchanged our findings and observations was due to our attitude and priority to make things open source so that carbon action happens in as many places and by as many people as possible. This has and is assisting industrial scale mobile and stationary plants become reality.
One fundamental ethical, cultural principles my close associates in Austria, Germany, Nepal, Norway, Spain, Switzerland and the USA …, have become to understand and support this guiding priciple:
“Knowledge is the treasure that keeps growing in value by sharing it” – everyone has the chance to contribute and take it further for everyone’s benefit it its. I get far more benefits (in most cases) from sharing, collaborating and assisting others than to have my pride and self interest in the foreground. What goes around, comes around as we have this one Earth, the time is ticking fore very single one of us. This is my 13th Year of full time Biochar action in some form and 16 years since Prof. Bruno Glaser in Germany  first responded to my questions from under Down Under in Tasmania.
Frank
www.terrapretadevelopments.com.au/products


 

 

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurent Chabanne via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 4:01 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Tom Miles is forwarding an email to you

 

Rick, I totally agree with you: patenting is important to raise money, even if the patent is not really easy to defend.

 

Patents are useful for a lot more things than just protecting IP.


Kevin Chisholm
 

Hi Tom

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Miles
Sent: January 18, 2020 7:04 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook

 

Posts on this forum and current biochar production and sales show that many people who know when and how to use biochar.

 

# Yes indeed! However, I would suggest that if many more people knew when and how to use biochar, the producers would be hard pressed to keep up with the demand.

 

Several use biochar and soils analyses as tools to guide or monitor their practice.

 

# “Several”, in my view, is the problem. I would suggest that those who do not use soil biochar and soil analyses as tools to guide and monitor their practices are simply guessing, and that they are the ones who get the poor results.

 

Some are more successful at pricing, quality, and delivery than others. Some biochar businesses are more successful than others because of factors unrelated to the product and use.

 

# As I see it, the problems are not with the production, quality, and delivery of biochar, but the lack of “Market Pull” to order and use their products.

 We find that it is more common that people are totally unaware of biochar and its uses.   

 

# “Bingo!!”… Market development is the required solution to the problem.

 

Recent analyses of many research projects demonstrate that the odds are better than 50:50. See Dr. Bruno Glaser’s (2019) 20 minute presentation on “Biochar research – State of the art” on the IBI website https://biochar-international.org/  (Note Dr. Glaser’s cautions regarding measuring the quality of meta-analyses.)

 

# Such a study would be expected to be done by people with a generally scientific approach, based on soil and biochar properties. Less “blind guesswork” would be employed.

 

Or study a recent  meta-analysis of the relationship between characteristics of biochars and soils:

 

Combined effects of biochar properties and soil conditions on plant growth: A meta-analysis

Effect of biochar/soil properties on plant productivity response (PPR) was examined.
Grand mean of PPR was estimated to be 16.0% regardless of biochar/soil conditions.
PPR varied from −31.8% to 974% under different biochar/soil combinations.
Design of functional biochar according to initial soil conditions is needed.

# EXACTLY!

Biochar application in agricultural soils can be highly beneficial to plant productivity. However, how plant productivity response (PPR) [% change of plant yield from control (without biochar application)] to biochar application is affected by biochar properties, soil conditions, and their combinations is still unclear.

# EXACTLY!

Therefore, a meta-analysis based on 1254 paired comparisons from 153 published studies was conducted. The grand mean of PPR was estimated to be 16.0 ± 1.3%, regardless of biochar/soil conditions. Meanwhile, a large variation of PPR from −31.8% to 974% was also observed under different biochar or/and soil conditions. Specifically, biochar properties including pH, cation exchange capacity (CEC), contents of carbon and ash, bulk density, and soil conditions including texture, pH, CEC, nitrogen content, and C/N ratio significantly affected the results of PPR to biochar addition. Furthermore, the liming effect, improvement in soil physical structure, and increased nutrient use efficiency were suggested as the key mechanisms for the positive PPR in biochar-amended soils. Moreover, PPR could be significantly affected (strengthened or weakened) by the combined effect of biochar properties and soil conditions. Overall, the application of biochars with high ash content (or low carbon content) into sandy soils or acidic soils is highly recommended for increasing plant productivity. This meta-analysis will provide helpful information to elucidate the combined effect of biochar properties and soil conditions on plant growth, which is critical for developing engineered biochar with specific functionality to promote plant production and food security.

# EXACTLY!

Biochar application in agricultural soils can be highly beneficial to plant productivity. However, how plant productivity response (PPR) [% change of …

 

SCIENCEDIRECT.COM

Combined effects of biochar properties and soil conditions on plant growth: A meta-analysis

Biochar application in agricultural soils can be highly beneficial to plant productivity. However, how plant productivity response (PPR) [% change of …


Science of The Total Environment

Available online 15 January 2020, 136635

In Press, Journal Pre-proofWhat are Journal Pre-proof articles?

Yanhui Daia HaoZheng Zhixiang Jiang BaoshanXing

Received 2 November 2019, Revised 5 January 2020, Accepted 9 January 2020, Available online 15 January 2020.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scitotenv.2020.136635

 

# I would suggest that implement the above sound observations and recommendations would led to strong “Market Pull” for biochar.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

Tom

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Chisholm
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook

 

Hi Mike

 

My view of the “Biochar Opportunity” is that it is it is presently being driven by “Producer Push” and is seriously lacking in “Market Pull”. Someone once said “If you build it, they will come.” I would thus suggest that “If you build Markets for biochar, Customers will come.”

 

Biochar is not a panacea. It is useless unless it can partially or totally remove a limiting soil deficiency. Simply adding biochar to an “unknown soil” is nothing but guesswork.  Additionally, the problem is more complex, in that “every biochar is different”. Furthermore, it is well known that unless a biochar is “precharged” in some manner, growth and yield results are likely to be inferior to the control plot.

 

I would suggest that “Scientific Biochar Market Development” must start with two basic requirements:

1: A soil analysis, quantifying its nutrient  and “physical property” deficiencies

2: A biochar analysis, quantifying the degree to which it can economically resolve the various soil deficiencies.

3: A determination of the remaining deficiencies, and an estimate of “existing nutrient capture” that the biochar creates.

4: A determination of other nutrients that must be added, to bring soil quality up to an acceptable level. (eg., organic matter, compost, trace elements, macro nutrients, enzymes, bacteria and fungal additives, etc)

 

With such factual information, it would be easy for a Soil Technician to prescribe the correct biochar and the necessary additional ingredients, and their quantities to make the soil acceptable to the Farmer/Grower.

 

With such an approach, Rick’s observed “Biochar 50% Success, 50% Failure Rate” could be remarkably improved.

 

Does this “hang together” for you? How could this approach be improved upon?

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io [mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikethewormguy via Groups.Io
Sent: January 18, 2020 12:51 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Information that may help when seeing if patents are enforceable. Japanese Handbook

 

To The List.........

 

Before the plan.....what are the questions....?

 

It would be very helpful for the folks on this list to create a list of questions regarding th use of char for XYZ applications..

 

We could start with general application areas like food, fuel, fertilizer, feed, fodder.....?  (The 5F list).....

 

Make this effort "solution" focused and not trying to 'prove' this or that.....  

 

The importance of questions is based on knowing that if one only knows how than they can only improve a process but if one knows why than they can innovate....

 

Innovation is a contact sport .....?????

 

I am happy to be on Team Earth humming in the key of  " C ".....

 

Your thoughts.....?

 

my 2 cents.....

 

Mike, a WHY's guy....

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 


mikethewormguy
 

Kevin,

In addition to the important within season steps you list, it is beneficial to look at the among season long term benefits of annual biochar apps, as well as, if you are in a crop rotation program....

Looking at the use of biochar with in the context of the growing system can change the ROI calculation for all involved.  The growing system can be perennial, annual rotational, ???.

Crop Farmer #1 and Crop Farmer #2 could create a mutually beneficial plan for within season biochar application(s) that can be good for both long term....   They both have a dog in the same hunt.......

my 2 cents,

Mike





Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


dan weinshenker
 

Please post more handbooks. 


Norm Baker
 

Stephen;

I agree with Dan. Please post more handbooks.

Norm