Horizontal bed kiln #woodvinegar #bees
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Nando Breiter
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:32 AM, Kim Chaffee wrote:
Do you have a projected date for installing your first commercial unit in upstate New York? Will you begin commercial production shortly after that? Hello Kim, https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe
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Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos@...>
Hi Nando, Wood vinegar use seems to be picking up here in Kenya especially among commercial flower farms, many of whom are using this Croton Vinegar made by eco-fuels Kenya (http://efk.co.ke/products). It's about 10$ a liter which far exceeds the value of the waste nut husks its made from. (Around $0.04c per kilo). We had showed them how to make it a few years ago using one of our kilns and they have now industrialized the process. There are still though quite a few flower farms/permaculture groups/small holder farmers buying kilns for making their own wood vinegar as well as charcoal and biochar. It does seem to be picking up in Uganda as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iemTPlACxLs Best, Teddy Teddy Kinyanjui Sustainability Director    
On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 1:14 AM <nando@...> wrote: On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:32 AM, Kim Chaffee wrote:
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Nando Breiter
On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 02:22 PM, Cookswell Jikos wrote:
Wood vinegar use seems to be picking up here in Kenya especially among commercial flower farmsHello Teddy, Do you know against what pests they are using it? Dosage? Effectiveness? My father ran a commercial flower growing operation outside of Chicago, this was many decades ago, and he would apply a granular pesticide called Temik (Aldicarb) against spider mites, aphids and whitefly. It required full protective gear. He knew of 2 growers in a nearby town that applied Temik and went out for beers afterward, and died because several grains had fallen under their clothes and were absorbed through sweaty skin. He of course had me applying pesticides for him, and this was his warning that I should take a shower after applying Temik. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldicarb "Aldicarb is one of the most widely used pesticides internationally, and is also one of the most environmentally toxic. Aldicarb poisoning from agricultural water runoff has led to the destruction of healthy ecosystems and the irreversible poisoning of fertile agricultural land. Poisoning from this pesticide is also believed to be linked to high cancer rates in communities located around the Aral Sea." I read in this article that it was supposedly banned in 2010 because of multiple instances of poisonings, but has been reintroduced. -- Nando Breiter http://biochar.info CarbonZero Sagl Astano, Switzerland
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Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos@...>
They advise the following: Teddy Kinyanjui Sustainability Director
On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 4:21 PM <nando@...> wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 02:22 PM, Cookswell Jikos wrote:
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Stephen Joseph
Hi Teddy Is this wood vinegar from condensed smoke during pyrolysis and is there any chemical composition data? Thanks Regards Stephen
On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 12:41 AM Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos@...> wrote:
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Norm Baker
I'm curious if anyone has done any emissions testing on making pyroligneous acid. I know Bob Wells has a retort that performs extremely well and makes PA without emissions problems. However, with democratized versions of biochar kilns, there must be some emissions. Really curious what they are. Norm
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Nando Breiter
Hi Norm, I don't know about other kilns, but ours is designed to meet New York state emissions standards, which are some of the most strict in the US. CarbonZero Sagl CP 15 6999 Astano Switzerland +41 (0)76 303 4477 cell skype: ariamedia
On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 7:53 PM Norm Baker <ntbakerphd@...> wrote:
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Tom Nelson
Norm,
I would reach out to Dr. Olivier Lepez at ETIA (Biogreen) in France. ETIA has developed a wood vinegar module to pair with his Biogreen reactor technology. He would know all about emissions, I would imagine.
I have put a lot of time personally into investigating wood vinegar. Completely aside from the emission question, there are significant logistical issues to overcome. The wood vinegar must be protected from direct sunlight, and finding a carrier can be difficult. The largest carrier of caustic liquids in the US no bid a potentially large multi year contract to carry wood vinegar, because they did not want to deal with cleaning out the tanker or totes between shipments. This was 25,000 gallons a week for 3 years, and they were not interested. WV is highly corrosive, too. I placed some in a paint can overnight, and the next morning it had rusted to a ridiculous extent. It was almost unbelievable. You could almost see the can rusting. Producers will likely need to purchase dedicated storage vessels (covered totes or stainless steel tankers). Transportation and storage is half of the business problem with wood vinegar. It is not just an afterthought.
Wood vinegar, or pyroligneous acid has tremendous market potential, even more so than biochar, I believe. It is not raw wet pyrolysis oil- it is the purified aqueous portion left after all oils and tars have been removed. Refined wood vinegar does not self ignite; it has multiple uses, it is low cost, low risk, high density, renewable, sustainable and organic. Great product. I could sell a lot of it if I could get it made to my specification.
Tom Nelson Torresak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Norm Baker" <ntbakerphd@...> Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 1:52pm To: "main@Biochar.groups.io" <main@biochar.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Biochar] Horizontal bed kiln I'm curious if anyone has done any emissions testing on making pyroligneous acid. I know Bob Wells has a retort that performs extremely well and makes PA without emissions problems. However, with democratized versions of biochar kilns, there must be some emissions. Really curious what they are.
Norm
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Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos@...>
Where does wood vinegar stop and liquid smoke begin? Could it be all in the name https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3951573/ as there seems to be a huge global industry 'liquid smoke' https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/liquid-smoke-market but less so for 'wood vinegar'. Has anyone else used it to preserve timber how these folks are doing it in New Meixco http://www.scizerinm.org/charcoalphotos.html? Best, Teddy Teddy Kinyanjui Sustainability Director
On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 10:39 PM Tom Nelson <tom@...> wrote:
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Nando Breiter
On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 07:29 AM, Cookswell Jikos wrote:
Where does wood vinegar stop and liquid smoke begin?Thermal decomposition temperature and feedstock will have an effect on the chemical composition of the condensable extract. Both names describe a mix of similar organic compounds. Liquid smoke, according to the article you cited, is often refined to enhance particular qualities for its use as a food additive. The condensable gases extracted at thermal decomposition temperatures above 280° C will contain tars, which are a wood preservative but also are toxic to plants. As you probably know, wood vinegar can be / is often refined from raw pyrolysis distillate by letting it stand for several months. The tars will settle to the bottom of the vessel, oils and water will float to the top, and the wood vinegar is extracted from the middle layer. Wood vinegar can also be produced directly if the thermal decomposition temperature is controlled or staged in such a way that only the vapors produced at about 280° C and below are condensed separately. The vapors produced at temperatures over 280° C will contain the tars. If the tar fraction is condensed, it can be used as a wood preservative. If not, it can be burned with the non-condensable gases. Another way to obtain mostly the tars from the pyrolysis gases (produced at temps > 300° C) is to keep condensation temperature in the 100° - 105° C range. Then only the tars would be condensed, and the lighter fraction organic compounds that would generally be called wood vinegar would pass through to the burner. So the elemental distinction arises from the processing and feedstock, not from the name. Perhaps the name used has more to do with the intended market, but the elemental composition plays an important role in the end product in any case. -- Nando Breiter http://biochar.info CarbonZero Sagl Astano, Switzerland
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Roger Faulkner
I have a long time is 3 history of thinking about paralyzers. I started thinking about this seriously well studying chemical engineering 50 years ago. I believe that a slant bed reactor is the most economical solution to this problem. With a slant bed reactor you can feed product into the dock into the top and remove biochar from the bottom. The most economical designs would involve mining engineering as opposed to fabricating of equipment. I envision a slant bed and inappropriate rock for me so. One has a horizontal access panel at the bottom to remove product. Somewhere well above that level is the area where you add in the biomass
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Tom Miles
Roger,
Commercial version of this are use as gasifiers to generate heat for lumber dry kilns in the US South. KDS Systems, Georgia, is a typical supplier. They use wet saawdsut and generate 35-40 MMBtuh heat. The char yield is 8-10%. Char from these units is reprocessed and used in turf and landscape markets in the Southeast. A smaller version is available from Biomass Energy Techniques, Missouri. https://biomassenergytechniques.com/ They adapted the old “Conifer” sloped grate burner that was used to heat homes with sawdust in our Pacific Northwest before oil and natural gas became available. The Conifer was supplied by Hern Iron Works in Spokane, WA who later sold their designs and dies to BET. https://www.coniferburners.com/ These are gasifiers or staged combustors.
Many sloped and moving bed pyrolyzers have been developed over the years in France, Canada, and most recently in Switzerland. They have been heated with gas or radiant heat (like in a heat treat furnace), molten salt and other media. There are been various means of moving the biomass down or along the grate from gravity to rake systems, to moving floor grates. I don’t know of any that are in commercial operation today.
Tom
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Faulkner via Groups.Io
I have a long time is 3 history of thinking about paralyzers. I started thinking about this seriously well studying chemical engineering 50 years ago. I believe that a slant bed reactor is the most economical solution to this problem. With a slant bed reactor you can feed product into the dock into the top and remove biochar from the bottom. The most economical designs would involve mining engineering as opposed to fabricating of equipment. I envision a slant bed and inappropriate rock for me so. One has a horizontal access panel at the bottom to remove product. Somewhere well above that level is the area where you add in the biomass
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Stephen Joseph
Hi Teddy Most liquid smoke is made at lower temperatures than wood vinegar is often made at but you are correct there is no difference from a process point of view. Regards Stephen
On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 5:29 PM Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos@...> wrote:
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Norm Baker
Nando; Wow! Excellent! There used to be a few videos of Filipinos making wood vinegar and you could tell for the democratized version (which basically means quick and dirty and inexpensive), there was considerable smoke and emissions. It's very clear we have the technology to control emissions but, my question is is that technology available for the do-it-yourselfer? By the way, I really like the work you are doing. Norm
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Nando Breiter
On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 11:37 PM, Norm Baker wrote:
is that technology available for the do-it-yourselfer?There isn't a patent or trade secret at play here. We're simply flaring all gases that haven't been condensed to a liquid. That already gets you no visible smoke, as with the exhaust from burning propane or natural gas. At commercial scale, we need to meet the emissions regulations of the locale in which the kiln is installed ... so in this case the do-it-yourself task is "pay engineers" and/or "raise money to pay engineers". -- Nando Breiter http://biochar.info CarbonZero Sagl Astano, Switzerland
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Tom Miles
In most states if you have clean stack you typically just need a letter permit for a fuel input up to 10 MMBtuh (~1400 lb/hr dry fuel 10-15% MC). Above that you may need to apply for a formal permit. Each state has its own rules. Most small scale systems are between 500K and 3 MMBtuh (~150kW-880kW). Nando did your client need a permit in NY for your pilot unit?
Tom
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nando Breiter
On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 11:37 PM, Norm Baker wrote:
There isn't a patent or trade secret at play here. We're simply flaring all gases that haven't been condensed to a liquid. That already gets you no visible smoke, as with the exhaust from burning propane or natural gas. At commercial scale, we need to meet the emissions regulations of the locale in which the kiln is installed ... so in this case the do-it-yourself task is "pay engineers" and/or "raise money to pay engineers".
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