Topics

Need Help - Model for Urine/Biochar Fertilizer for #urine #fertilizer


Hussein Kisiki Nsamba
 

Hi Kevin,

I'm in Uganda too and would gladly follow up on this.

In your simple biochar - urine formulation/mixing procedure, you missed out the ratios ?

Hussein


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 21:40, Kevin McLean
<info@...> wrote:
Please help quickly create a formula.  A colleague/farmer in Uganda is planting maize next week and can test for us.

In partnership with the Catholic and Anglican churches in many African countries, we can train many millions of farmers if we keep the formula extremely simple.  (We have trained tens of millions of women to cook with rock beds in their traditional cookstoves.)

We know that urine works well as fertilizer.  We can train with urine alone.  But, it seems that adding biochar and maybe ash could substantially improve the fertilizer (Hans Peter Schmidt article)

Simplicity is more important than perfection.

Can this be done:
1.  Crush charcoal.
2.  Put the charcoal in a container.
3.  Collect urine in the container and occasionally shake.
4.  Pour the urine/biochar in the hole with the maize kernels when planting and broadcast on the ground after emergence.

If this method will work, it has several advantages:
1.  Simple and easy to train.
2.  Uses available materials.
3.  May keep the urine from smelling during collection.

My colleague has already planted most of his corn.  He has just over a week left in the planting season for this test.

I've been communicating with Mike Flynn offlist whom I expect will respond.  I also hope to tap into broader expertise of this group.

Please help.
Kevin


abraham abyslo
 

You started by writing 'if this method works'. This method works and works well to give healthy and thrifty plants even in dry season. The near fields that go brown after successive 5 to 9 days of sun while the biochar field remain green are enough to recommend this method. The harvests are consistently better in quantity and individual kernel sizes.    

We here in Nigeria add these few steps:Add liquid manure to the mix,pre wash the seeds in baking soda and soak in water till they just sprout. We add sometimes commercial copper based fungicides or powdered sulfur to the biochar soak if planting vegetable seeds . 
The only hold on wide spread use of this method is lack of machines to do the application of the biochar on a large scale. Large scale here means about 2 to 7 hectares.

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 20:23 Hussein Kisiki Nsamba via groups.io <nsambahussein2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Kevin,

I'm in Uganda too and would gladly follow up on this.

In your simple biochar - urine formulation/mixing procedure, you missed out the ratios ?

Hussein


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 21:40, Kevin McLean
<info@...> wrote:
Please help quickly create a formula.  A colleague/farmer in Uganda is planting maize next week and can test for us.

In partnership with the Catholic and Anglican churches in many African countries, we can train many millions of farmers if we keep the formula extremely simple.  (We have trained tens of millions of women to cook with rock beds in their traditional cookstoves.)

We know that urine works well as fertilizer.  We can train with urine alone.  But, it seems that adding biochar and maybe ash could substantially improve the fertilizer (Hans Peter Schmidt article)

Simplicity is more important than perfection.

Can this be done:
1.  Crush charcoal.
2.  Put the charcoal in a container.
3.  Collect urine in the container and occasionally shake.
4.  Pour the urine/biochar in the hole with the maize kernels when planting and broadcast on the ground after emergence.

If this method will work, it has several advantages:
1.  Simple and easy to train.
2.  Uses available materials.
3.  May keep the urine from smelling during collection.

My colleague has already planted most of his corn.  He has just over a week left in the planting season for this test.

I've been communicating with Mike Flynn offlist whom I expect will respond.  I also hope to tap into broader expertise of this group.

Please help.
Kevin


mikethewormguy
 

Abraham,

For the larger seeds, you may consider coating the pre-germed seed in biochar powder.  The coating will help in drying back the seed and reduce clumping.  Using the seed as a delivery vehicle for biochar is one way to get biochar in the root zone.

Another option to consider is planting transplants vs direct seeding.  A biochar amended media can be used to grow the transplants.  In this example, the transplant itself is the delivery system.  Transplants provide the opportunity to add biology to the soil.

The biochar powder could be pre-soaked in dilute urine.  This means that a pop-up fertilizer  is applied to the seed when the seed is coated.

Mike



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Tom Stephan <tom@...>
 

Mike,
 I have a product line of bio char products I wish to produce. One is BC starter cups shaped like peat cups. Made of small inoculated bio char pieces and bio char powder, mixed with water, fungi spores, flour and molasses, the resulting slurry could be pressed into the shape of a peat cups and dried for seed germination. This small amount of Bio Char should accompany the annual plant throughout it's season. I will R and D this and other products soon.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 10:38 AM mikethewormguy via groups.io <mikethewormguy=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Abraham,

For the larger seeds, you may consider coating the pre-germed seed in biochar powder.  The coating will help in drying back the seed and reduce clumping.  Using the seed as a delivery vehicle for biochar is one way to get biochar in the root zone.

Another option to consider is planting transplants vs direct seeding.  A biochar amended media can be used to grow the transplants.  In this example, the transplant itself is the delivery system.  Transplants provide the opportunity to add biology to the soil.

The biochar powder could be pre-soaked in dilute urine.  This means that a pop-up fertilizer  is applied to the seed when the seed is coated.

Mike



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Thomas Casten
 

My understanding is that mycorrhizal fungi spores become active when they receive a chemical signal from a plant root, and must reach the plant to obtain hexose in 7 to 9 days or die.  This suggests that the fungi would not trigger until the germinating seed had grown roots to the cup surface.  We lightly dusted tomato seeds with a fungi spore mix, which caught in the feathery parts of the seed, and then added about 1% by weight of biochar that had been mixed with vermicompost for a month.  No way to know which part helped, but the seedlings emerged in about 5 days, have grown faster than in prior years, and have by now filled the pots, a month before last frost date.  

Have you considered working with a producer of organic seedling soil, substituting biochar that has been blended with vermicompost for the pearlite and dusted with appropriate fungal spores?  Or selling bags of just the BC/spore mix for addition to potting soil?

Tom Casten  
Thomas R Casten
Cell: 630-915-9215
Work: 630-321-1095



On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:46 AM Tom Stephan <tom@...> wrote:
Mike,
 I have a product line of bio char products I wish to produce. One is BC starter cups shaped like peat cups. Made of small inoculated bio char pieces and bio char powder, mixed with water, fungi spores, flour and molasses, the resulting slurry could be pressed into the shape of a peat cups and dried for seed germination. This small amount of Bio Char should accompany the annual plant throughout it's season. I will R and D this and other products soon.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 10:38 AM mikethewormguy via groups.io <mikethewormguy=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Abraham,

For the larger seeds, you may consider coating the pre-germed seed in biochar powder.  The coating will help in drying back the seed and reduce clumping.  Using the seed as a delivery vehicle for biochar is one way to get biochar in the root zone.

Another option to consider is planting transplants vs direct seeding.  A biochar amended media can be used to grow the transplants.  In this example, the transplant itself is the delivery system.  Transplants provide the opportunity to add biology to the soil.

The biochar powder could be pre-soaked in dilute urine.  This means that a pop-up fertilizer  is applied to the seed when the seed is coated.

Mike



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


--
Thomas R Casten
tr9casten@...
630-915-9215


mikethewormguy
 

Tom,

It is quite interesting to hear about your efforts.   There has been much ongoing discussion, in the ag and hort world, regarding how to stabilize the rooting media in such a way not to have to take plastic containers to the field.  Some folks have gone the cup route while others have tried to stabilize the media itself.

I do have a number of questions about your BC cup I that I can send you direct...

Mike





Tom Stephan <tom@...>
 

 I have approached a few CEO"s but have yet to find some seed money, no pun. Why have plastic waste in the field when it may be possible to make the containers from biodegradable bio char? The cups idea is a tangent idea off of another product that has greater potential. I have a number of products to RnD for agriculture, ornamental trees, even house plants. I produced something last year the permaculture folks may like. Its wooden planter box that grows tomatoes and hangs from the backyard fence. The insides are charred and inoculated. The plants grow out the bottom or sides. A lid is provided so that kitchen scraps can be deposited inside. Resident earthworms turn the scraps into fertilizers the plants use to produce food. I torch and wire brush the outside for aesthetics. Mike I'd be happy to discuss opportunities off forum. You and any member may contact me at the info below, but in case you cannot see it, my email is tom@.... phone is 760 445 2023. My company is www.barnowlboxes.com



On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 12:19 PM Thomas Casten <tr9casten@...> wrote:
My understanding is that mycorrhizal fungi spores become active when they receive a chemical signal from a plant root, and must reach the plant to obtain hexose in 7 to 9 days or die.  This suggests that the fungi would not trigger until the germinating seed had grown roots to the cup surface.  We lightly dusted tomato seeds with a fungi spore mix, which caught in the feathery parts of the seed, and then added about 1% by weight of biochar that had been mixed with vermicompost for a month.  No way to know which part helped, but the seedlings emerged in about 5 days, have grown faster than in prior years, and have by now filled the pots, a month before last frost date.  

Have you considered working with a producer of organic seedling soil, substituting biochar that has been blended with vermicompost for the pearlite and dusted with appropriate fungal spores?  Or selling bags of just the BC/spore mix for addition to potting soil?

Tom Casten  
Thomas R Casten
Cell: 630-915-9215
Work: 630-321-1095



On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 10:46 AM Tom Stephan <tom@...> wrote:
Mike,
 I have a product line of bio char products I wish to produce. One is BC starter cups shaped like peat cups. Made of small inoculated bio char pieces and bio char powder, mixed with water, fungi spores, flour and molasses, the resulting slurry could be pressed into the shape of a peat cups and dried for seed germination. This small amount of Bio Char should accompany the annual plant throughout it's season. I will R and D this and other products soon.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 10:38 AM mikethewormguy via groups.io <mikethewormguy=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Abraham,

For the larger seeds, you may consider coating the pre-germed seed in biochar powder.  The coating will help in drying back the seed and reduce clumping.  Using the seed as a delivery vehicle for biochar is one way to get biochar in the root zone.

Another option to consider is planting transplants vs direct seeding.  A biochar amended media can be used to grow the transplants.  In this example, the transplant itself is the delivery system.  Transplants provide the opportunity to add biology to the soil.

The biochar powder could be pre-soaked in dilute urine.  This means that a pop-up fertilizer  is applied to the seed when the seed is coated.

Mike



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


--
Thomas R Casten
tr9casten@...
630-915-9215


John Hofmeyr
 

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 12:44 PM, abraham abyslo wrote:
@abraham wrote: "We add sometimes commercial copper based fungicides ..."
Question: Will that kill all fungi including beneficial mycorrhizae. See https://bit.ly/3b7wxO5


John Hofmeyr
 

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 09:19 AM, Thomas Casten wrote:
@Thomas wrote "... must reach the plant to obtain hexose in 7 to 9 days or die."
QUESTION: Is that true of live mycorrhizal fungi? I think the live fungi require moisture, oxygen and contact with plant roots. Hence a limited lifespan if anyone of those is absent. But I think the spores will last perdurably in the absence of those and will begin to grow fungal matter when the soil conditions are appropriate. Please correct me if that's wrong. 


Tom Stephan <tom@...>
 

Chlorine?


On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 3:23 AM John Hofmeyr <john-h@...> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 12:44 PM, abraham abyslo wrote:
@abraham wrote: "We add sometimes commercial copper based fungicides ..."
Question: Will that kill all fungi including beneficial mycorrhizae. See https://bit.ly/3b7wxO5


Kathleen Draper
 

In case you are not aware of the Rich Earth Institute in Vermont, their whole focus is on using urine as a fertilizer. Someone from their organization attended the 2016 Biochar conference, but I don't know if they are doing anything with it currently. 


mikethewormguy
 

Kathleen,

Thanks for the info.  I have just reached out to them to make contact.

Mike



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


d.michael.shafer@gmail.com
 

Don't stress out on the ratios. This is not a scientific process. Put the biochar in a bucket. Get your little boys to pee in it. (They will love this part.) When it is full up, put it in the sun for a day to lose some of the water if you want. Otherwise, do as the man says, just pour it into the hole, push a bit of dirt in, drop in the seeds and cover with the rest of the dirt. Now, if you want still better, add a handful of manure and/or compost to add some organic materials because chances are your soil is pretty barren.



photo
Dr. D. Michael Shafer
Founder and Director, Warm Heart

+1 732-745-9295 | +66 (0)85 199-2958 | d.michael.shafer@...

www.warmheartworldwide.org | Skype: live:d.michael.shafer53

61 M.8 T.Maepang A.Phrao 50190 Chiang Mai Thailand


On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 2:23 AM Hussein Kisiki Nsamba via groups.io <nsambahussein2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Kevin,

I'm in Uganda too and would gladly follow up on this.

In your simple biochar - urine formulation/mixing procedure, you missed out the ratios ?

Hussein


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 21:40, Kevin McLean
<info@...> wrote:
Please help quickly create a formula.  A colleague/farmer in Uganda is planting maize next week and can test for us.

In partnership with the Catholic and Anglican churches in many African countries, we can train many millions of farmers if we keep the formula extremely simple.  (We have trained tens of millions of women to cook with rock beds in their traditional cookstoves.)

We know that urine works well as fertilizer.  We can train with urine alone.  But, it seems that adding biochar and maybe ash could substantially improve the fertilizer (Hans Peter Schmidt article)

Simplicity is more important than perfection.

Can this be done:
1.  Crush charcoal.
2.  Put the charcoal in a container.
3.  Collect urine in the container and occasionally shake.
4.  Pour the urine/biochar in the hole with the maize kernels when planting and broadcast on the ground after emergence.

If this method will work, it has several advantages:
1.  Simple and easy to train.
2.  Uses available materials.
3.  May keep the urine from smelling during collection.

My colleague has already planted most of his corn.  He has just over a week left in the planting season for this test.

I've been communicating with Mike Flynn offlist whom I expect will respond.  I also hope to tap into broader expertise of this group.

Please help.
Kevin


peter ongele
 

I did pots and field experiments with urine+biochar(charcoal), biochar+animal manure, though wasn't keen scientifically because I didn't consider much on these chemistry calculations. Two, it was community research participatory approach.
1: we collected leftover charcoal dusts in the markets, fish beaches and at homesteads as much as possible.
2: we had no weighing scales but collected charcoal  dusts//remains  in wheelbarrows.
3: charcoal dusts/remains + animal manures were mixed in the ratio of 1:2.
4: this was spread in row/line where the planting holes were to be made. We did like this so the when the weed shall have been done, the biochar/charcoal+ animal manures will spread all over the area and the whole farm fertility will improve. 
We had significant improved performance with biochar+animal manures, followed by biochar alone than control plots.
I'll share later something on urine.

sunday, April 19, 2020, 10:05:49 AM GMT+3, d.michael.shafer@... <d.michael.shafer@...> wrote:


Don't stress out on the ratios. This is not a scientific process. Put the biochar in a bucket. Get your little boys to pee in it. (They will love this part.) When it is full up, put it in the sun for a day to lose some of the water if you want. Otherwise, do as the man says, just pour it into the hole, push a bit of dirt in, drop in the seeds and cover with the rest of the dirt. Now, if you want still better, add a handful of manure and/or compost to add some organic materials because chances are your soil is pretty barren.



photo
Dr. D. Michael Shafer
Founder and Director, Warm Heart

+1 732-745-9295 | +66 (0)85 199-2958 | d.michael.shafer@...

www.warmheartworldwide.org | Skype: live:d.michael.shafer53

61 M.8 T.Maepang A.Phrao 50190 Chiang Mai Thailand

Latest Tweet: Recent article published by Global Ground Media #airpollution #globalwarmingsolutions https://t.co/a2cdLpWF7h https://t.co/rwDykD7b9K Read More
    


On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 2:23 AM Hussein Kisiki Nsamba via groups.io <nsambahussein2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Kevin,

I'm in Uganda too and would gladly follow up on this.

In your simple biochar - urine formulation/mixing procedure, you missed out the ratios ?

Hussein


On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 21:40, Kevin McLean
<info@...> wrote:
Please help quickly create a formula.  A colleague/farmer in Uganda is planting maize next week and can test for us.

In partnership with the Catholic and Anglican churches in many African countries, we can train many millions of farmers if we keep the formula extremely simple.  (We have trained tens of millions of women to cook with rock beds in their traditional cookstoves.)

We know that urine works well as fertilizer.  We can train with urine alone.  But, it seems that adding biochar and maybe ash could substantially improve the fertilizer (Hans Peter Schmidt article)

Simplicity is more important than perfection.

Can this be done:
1.  Crush charcoal.
2.  Put the charcoal in a container.
3.  Collect urine in the container and occasionally shake.
4.  Pour the urine/biochar in the hole with the maize kernels when planting and broadcast on the ground after emergence.

If this method will work, it has several advantages:
1.  Simple and easy to train.
2.  Uses available materials.
3.  May keep the urine from smelling during collection.

My colleague has already planted most of his corn.  He has just over a week left in the planting season for this test.

I've been communicating with Mike Flynn offlist whom I expect will respond.  I also hope to tap into broader expertise of this group.

Please help.
Kevin


Kim Chaffee
 

All,

I thought you all should know about the Rich Earth Institute, headquartered in Brattleboro, Vermont USA.  They are working to erase the stigma regarding human urine and feces, to improve sanitation worldwide, and to use these valuable resources for promoting world health.  Please visit their website below and watch their funny video.  Like me, you can sign up to be on their email list.  Thanks.

Kim Chaffee 


From their latest email:

Annual Urine Donor Kick-Off goes virtual! April 30, 5:30 PM

Join us for our annual community gathering and a screening of the film Mr. Toilet. Before the film, we will unveil the 2019 Piss-off Contest winners. We will share our latest news at Rich Earth and let you know how you can become a urine donor if you live nearby and haven’t started collecting yet. The film screening will begin at 6:00 PM, followed by a discussion with the director, Libby Zepeda.

It’s time to break the toilet taboo! 2.6 billion people worldwide do not have access to sanitation. Join us as we uplift critical conversations about the struggle for global sanitation equity. Watch the Mr. Toilet trailer below.

Please RSVP to receive a Zoom invitation.
 
RSVP

Schedule: 

5:30 - Welcome and Piss-off Award Ceremony

6:00 - Screening of Mr. Toilet: The World's #2 Man

7:30 - Q & A with Director Lily Zepeda 

This event is free but we would welcome your donations. All proceeds for this event will support Rich Earth’s capital campaign to buy our building and secure a permanent home for urine recycling in Brattleboro. 
 
Watch the Mr. Toilet trailor here!

What people are saying:

"Mr. Toilet reveals how bathroom humor can change the world. Jack Sim might shock people, but he’s raising awareness about sanitation issues on a global scale." ~ The Wrap

"Mr Toilet is flushed with fun." ~ FF2 Media

"The film succeeds in creating an intimate portrait of a quirky, and eccentric individual full of compassion, love and wit who uses his ingenuity and skills to create a meaningful dialogue on shit." ~ The Extra Mile


On Apr 14, 2020, at 8:50 AM, Kathleen Draper <kdraper2@...> wrote:

In case you are not aware of the Rich Earth Institute in Vermont, their whole focus is on using urine as a fertilizer. Someone from their organization attended the 2016 Biochar conference, but I don't know if they are doing anything with it currently.