Lab to test for pathogens in biochar charged with human urine? #urine #analysis #pathogen


Kevin McLean
 

Any suggestions? 

We are beginning to collect large amounts of char in East Africa made from maize stalks and cobs using the Agwa TLUD.

Sacks of Biochar 1.png
Sacks of Biochar 2.png
The urine will be from many people and the biochar will be used on commercial farms.  I want to determine if the biochar is safe to use immediately after charging with urine, safe after a period of time or never safe.

Thank you,
Kevin

Kevin McLean, President
Sun24
Tampa, Florida, USA
+1 (813) 505-3340

                     


mikethewormguy
 

Kevin,

I would test the urine before applying it to the char

I would recommend creating a lot system for the urine collection for the purpose of traceability. The volume of the lot is based on risk management and not on science.  It is a business decision.

Each lot should be tested and the lot test data provided to the grower.

The pathogens we test for include generic Ecoli, Salmonella,  fecal coliform, and shigella toxin. Here in the US these test take around 5 days to get done and cost around $100 total.

You may want to consider a "kill" step using either dropping the pH or adding an essential oil.  The kill step provides assurance that no matter what happens upstream, the material applied to the crop is pathogen free at the time of delivery.

In addition, are you familiar with HACCP....?  Hazard Analysis Crtical Control Points is a food safety approach that maps all of the steps in a process where a contaminant, physical, biological, chemical, can enter the process. 

Food Safety is all about risk management. Lot control is all about limiting the size of your risk.

my 3 cents 

Mike, a Food Safety/ HACCP auditor in a prior life.......


Geoff Thomas
 

Other than pay some lab (large?) amounts of money, I would think mixing it with a good quantity of green compost would process anything active, to the benefit of both the compost and the Biochar,  and the toxins if any would be absorbed by the charcoal component.

Probably folk in East Africa don’t consume much heavy metals or such and traditionally human urine doesn’t hurt plant growth unless excessive, - ie the boyfriend always pisses in the same flower pot :) 

Cheers,

Geoff Thomas.

On 11 Oct 2020, at 4:47 am, Kevin McLean <info@...> wrote:

Any suggestions? 

We are beginning to collect large amounts of char in East Africa made from maize stalks and cobs using the Agwa TLUD.

<Sacks of Biochar 1.png>
<Sacks of Biochar 2.png>
The urine will be from many people and the biochar will be used on commercial farms.  I want to determine if the biochar is safe to use immediately after charging with urine, safe after a period of time or never safe.

Thank you,
Kevin

Kevin McLean, President
Sun24
Tampa, Florida, USA
+1 (813) 505-3340

                     


Nando Breiter
 

To inform myself, I found in a quick google search that urine from someone with a urinary tract infection can commonly contain (be caused by) e coli and fecal coliform, and rarely salmonella and shigella. 

There is a technique to purify water by using UV from sunlight - by putting it in a clear plastic bottle. Perhaps it would be sufficient to expose the urine to sunlight in a clear container. See https://www.cdc.gov/safewater/solardisinfection.html


CarbonZero Sagl
CP 15
6999 Astano
Switzerland

+41 76 303 4477 cell / WhatsApp
skype: ariamedia




On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 10:12 PM mikethewormguy via groups.io <mikethewormguy=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kevin,

I would test the urine before applying it to the char

I would recommend creating a lot system for the urine collection for the purpose of traceability. The volume of the lot is based on risk management and not on science.  It is a business decision.

Each lot should be tested and the lot test data provided to the grower.

The pathogens we test for include generic Ecoli, Salmonella,  fecal coliform, and shigella toxin. Here in the US these test take around 5 days to get done and cost around $100 total.

You may want to consider a "kill" step using either dropping the pH or adding an essential oil.  The kill step provides assurance that no matter what happens upstream, the material applied to the crop is pathogen free at the time of delivery.

In addition, are you familiar with HACCP....?  Hazard Analysis Crtical Control Points is a food safety approach that maps all of the steps in a process where a contaminant, physical, biological, chemical, can enter the process. 

Food Safety is all about risk management. Lot control is all about limiting the size of your risk.

my 3 cents 

Mike, a Food Safety/ HACCP auditor in a prior life.......


--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


Nando Breiter
 

... expose the urine to sunlight before adding it to the char ...


CarbonZero Sagl
CP 15
6999 Astano
Switzerland

+41 76 303 4477 cell / WhatsApp
skype: ariamedia




On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:37 AM Nando Breiter <nando@...> wrote:
To inform myself, I found in a quick google search that urine from someone with a urinary tract infection can commonly contain (be caused by) e coli and fecal coliform, and rarely salmonella and shigella. 

There is a technique to purify water by using UV from sunlight - by putting it in a clear plastic bottle. Perhaps it would be sufficient to expose the urine to sunlight in a clear container. See https://www.cdc.gov/safewater/solardisinfection.html


CarbonZero Sagl
CP 15
6999 Astano
Switzerland

+41 76 303 4477 cell / WhatsApp
skype: ariamedia




On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 10:12 PM mikethewormguy via groups.io <mikethewormguy=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kevin,

I would test the urine before applying it to the char

I would recommend creating a lot system for the urine collection for the purpose of traceability. The volume of the lot is based on risk management and not on science.  It is a business decision.

Each lot should be tested and the lot test data provided to the grower.

The pathogens we test for include generic Ecoli, Salmonella,  fecal coliform, and shigella toxin. Here in the US these test take around 5 days to get done and cost around $100 total.

You may want to consider a "kill" step using either dropping the pH or adding an essential oil.  The kill step provides assurance that no matter what happens upstream, the material applied to the crop is pathogen free at the time of delivery.

In addition, are you familiar with HACCP....?  Hazard Analysis Crtical Control Points is a food safety approach that maps all of the steps in a process where a contaminant, physical, biological, chemical, can enter the process. 

Food Safety is all about risk management. Lot control is all about limiting the size of your risk.

my 3 cents 

Mike, a Food Safety/ HACCP auditor in a prior life.......


--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


Frank Strie
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/22/study-gives-green-light-to-use-of-urine-as-crop-fertiliser

 

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/feeding-plants-with-urine.htm

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nando Breiter
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Lab to test for pathogens in biochar charged with human urine?

 

... expose the urine to sunlight before adding it to the char ...



CarbonZero Sagl
CP 15
6999 Astano
Switzerland

+41 76 303 4477 cell / WhatsApp
skype: ariamedia

 

 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:37 AM Nando Breiter <nando@...> wrote:

To inform myself, I found in a quick google search that urine from someone with a urinary tract infection can commonly contain (be caused by) e coli and fecal coliform, and rarely salmonella and shigella. 

 

There is a technique to purify water by using UV from sunlight - by putting it in a clear plastic bottle. Perhaps it would be sufficient to expose the urine to sunlight in a clear container. See https://www.cdc.gov/safewater/solardisinfection.html



CarbonZero Sagl
CP 15
6999 Astano
Switzerland

+41 76 303 4477 cell / WhatsApp
skype: ariamedia

 

 

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 10:12 PM mikethewormguy via groups.io <mikethewormguy=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kevin,

I would test the urine before applying it to the char

I would recommend creating a lot system for the urine collection for the purpose of traceability. The volume of the lot is based on risk management and not on science.  It is a business decision.

Each lot should be tested and the lot test data provided to the grower.

The pathogens we test for include generic Ecoli, Salmonella,  fecal coliform, and shigella toxin. Here in the US these test take around 5 days to get done and cost around $100 total.

You may want to consider a "kill" step using either dropping the pH or adding an essential oil.  The kill step provides assurance that no matter what happens upstream, the material applied to the crop is pathogen free at the time of delivery.

In addition, are you familiar with HACCP....?  Hazard Analysis Crtical Control Points is a food safety approach that maps all of the steps in a process where a contaminant, physical, biological, chemical, can enter the process. 

Food Safety is all about risk management. Lot control is all about limiting the size of your risk.

my 3 cents 

Mike, a Food Safety/ HACCP auditor in a prior life.......


--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


Kobus Venter
 

Hi Kevin,

I assisted IMPILO YABANTU in developing a low-tech system (fully franchised will come out under $60k US) that can dry and carbonize faecal sludge, which over a period of 3 years (since 2017) morphed into 6 interconnected kilns (containing drum retorts) in a process we coined 'progressive batch' where gases flow from one kiln to the next in series. Some of it was funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. 


So my experience only relates to sterilizing faecal sludge, in which some lab samples contained up 400,000 coliform concentrations down to Nil. Our "biochar" product is sold to Regenerative Agriculture Specialisation (RA$) in South Africa. At this stage we see no use of placing coliforms back into the biochar we have spent considreable energy removing. They have already done extensive field trials with a product that contains biochar. Their product called VitaSoil has 4 components:

1. Biochar which provides the refuge for microbes

2. Decomposed pine sawdust - nutrient source

3. Vermicasts - diversity 

4. Selected microbes with increased tolerance to chemicals and heat to help re-ignite soil biology

The natural "soil reef" created by above amendment will assist the natural microbes in the soil to flourish. 

I would also point you to Green Peace efforts to counter the practice of dumping contaminated sewage on fields in the UK: https://youtu.be/jUdM3iK4O0c

The problem as I see it is that humans and animals that step onto these pathogens can spread it into households unintentionally.

Wbr

Kobus



On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 22:12 mikethewormguy via groups.io, <mikethewormguy=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kevin,

I would test the urine before applying it to the char

I would recommend creating a lot system for the urine collection for the purpose of traceability. The volume of the lot is based on risk management and not on science.  It is a business decision.

Each lot should be tested and the lot test data provided to the grower.

The pathogens we test for include generic Ecoli, Salmonella,  fecal coliform, and shigella toxin. Here in the US these test take around 5 days to get done and cost around $100 total.

You may want to consider a "kill" step using either dropping the pH or adding an essential oil.  The kill step provides assurance that no matter what happens upstream, the material applied to the crop is pathogen free at the time of delivery.

In addition, are you familiar with HACCP....?  Hazard Analysis Crtical Control Points is a food safety approach that maps all of the steps in a process where a contaminant, physical, biological, chemical, can enter the process. 

Food Safety is all about risk management. Lot control is all about limiting the size of your risk.

my 3 cents 

Mike, a Food Safety/ HACCP auditor in a prior life.......