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List and Tom: cc Rick, (because he has commented on this list about abandoned land opportunities for biochar) Here below is notice of another important (non-fee) biochar article that started started on the CDR list. I changed the thread name slightly. If anyone wants to reply on the CDR list, probably best to not do both lists at once.
Ron Begin forwarded message:
Subject: Re: [CDR] Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth: One Earth
Date: August 23, 2020 at 5:44:51 PM MDT
Tom and CDR list; cc Andrew
2. I have one small nitpick - I believe they have not understood the big role that biochar will be playing in backing up wind and solar electric systems. About 1/3 of the way on p 181, they write: a. "One advantage of biomass is that it can be stored
inexpensively, allowing electricity to be produced on demand.” [RWL: True and very important. Not true for wind and solar PV. b. "However, the cost of renewables coupled with storage is reaching
price parity with biomass,98 and new energy-storage technologies
are being developed to further reduce these costs.101 [RWL: Also true. c. " In short,
compared with wind and solar energy, biomass presents few advantages for reducing GHG emissions. [RWL; Also mostly true. But what is missing is the huge cost of the long term electric battery storage when you are trying to remove the last fossil fuel portions (last 5-10% using natural gas peakers).
3. This is an excellent recent article thet predicts one has to almost double the needed electric generation if the needed reliability is met with electric storage batteries: Unfortunately this is not a freebie article, The situation is more dire than than this final sentence of the abstract: "Increasing storage duration increases storage value in some cases, but this increase in value may be insufficient to compensate for the increase in capital cost per kW even under the future cost scenario.”
. So this backup storage problem can’t be fixed with hydro, geothermal, etc. It can be fixed with biomass and especially biochar.
4. To repeat; this Yang et al article is the most biochar-supportive article I have read in a long time. I hope we can hear from anyone believing these authors have missed something.
5. I will now also send this exchange over to the biochar list, where this abandoned land topic came up a year or two ago (with support then especially from Rick Wilson).
6. Thanks again to Tom Goreau for his added information below But your link to a “Brazil alone” article didn’t work for me; can you supply again? I’m impressed by “alone"
Ron
On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:06 AM, Thomas Goreau < goreau@...> wrote:
Excellent paper! Thirty years ago Norman Myers and I found there was enough abandoned land in Brazil alone to stabilize CO2.
The abandoned lands were basically composed of one weed tree that can’t be used for firewood, one thorny shrub that poisons cattle, and passion flower vine with beautiful flowers but no fruit, compared to hundreds of species in the original forest.
The forest had been maintained by internal nutrient cycling despite very poor soils, but burning and erosion causes the nutrients to be lost, so the ecosystem with the highest biomass and productivity turned into semi-desert scrub severely depleted of nutrients.
Turning invasive weeds to biochar to grow diverse food forests is the best use of this land.
We have proposed such projects to the India Forestry Department.
Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance Chief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc. Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK 37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
Books: Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(20)30363-8
Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth Yi Yang Sarah E. Hobbie Rebecca R. Hernandez Jacob M. Jungers Ming Yang Wei-Qiang Chen Show all authors
Summary Degraded farmlands have been abandoned worldwide, especially in high- and middle-income countries. These lands help combat climate change as they undergo natural recovery of vegetation and soil carbon and remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. However, recovery can be slow, requiring decades to centuries to approach pre-cultivation or natural states, and in some cases, soils remain degraded without active restoration. In this perspective, we present an overview of how carbon capture and storage on abandoned farmland can be accelerated and maximized via managing plant diversity as both a means and an end of restoration, creating and applying biochar to soil, and co-developing with renewable energy as techno-ecological synergies. These strategies can jointly tackle climate change and land degradation while contributing to and reinforcing multiple other Sustainable Development Goals. Although challenges exist, adoption of these strategies could be facilitated by increasing governmental and corporate initiatives at global and regional levels, especially developing carbon-offset markets for agriculture.
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Thanks Ron for including me.
Along that line, I am in the Mojave this week planning three year trials (new and existing citrus plantings) with compost biochar amendments. See if we can get yields up where it makes sense. There is a huge aquifer under the Mojave, plenty of water.
Temperatures close by reached 130F a few days ago. Biochar could be a climate change adaptive technology.
Rick Wilson
List and Tom: cc Rick, (because he has commented on this list about abandoned land opportunities for biochar) Here below is notice of another important (non-fee) biochar article that started started on the CDR list. I changed the thread name slightly. If anyone wants to reply on the CDR list, probably best to not do both lists at once.
Ron Begin forwarded message:
Subject: Re: [CDR] Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth: One Earth
Date: August 23, 2020 at 5:44:51 PM MDT
Tom and CDR list; cc Andrew
2. I have one small nitpick - I believe they have not understood the big role that biochar will be playing in backing up wind and solar electric systems. About 1/3 of the way on p 181, they write: a. "One advantage of biomass is that it can be stored
inexpensively, allowing electricity to be produced on demand.” [RWL: True and very important. Not true for wind and solar PV. b. "However, the cost of renewables coupled with storage is reaching
price parity with biomass,98 and new energy-storage technologies
are being developed to further reduce these costs.101 [RWL: Also true. c. " In short,
compared with wind and solar energy, biomass presents few advantages for reducing GHG emissions. [RWL; Also mostly true. But what is missing is the huge cost of the long term electric battery storage when you are trying to remove the last fossil fuel portions (last 5-10% using natural gas peakers).
3. This is an excellent recent article thet predicts one has to almost double the needed electric generation if the needed reliability is met with electric storage batteries: Unfortunately this is not a freebie article, The situation is more dire than than this final sentence of the abstract: "Increasing storage duration increases storage value in some cases, but this increase in value may be insufficient to compensate for the increase in capital cost per kW even under the future cost scenario.”
. So this backup storage problem can’t be fixed with hydro, geothermal, etc. It can be fixed with biomass and especially biochar.
4. To repeat; this Yang et al article is the most biochar-supportive article I have read in a long time. I hope we can hear from anyone believing these authors have missed something.
5. I will now also send this exchange over to the biochar list, where this abandoned land topic came up a year or two ago (with support then especially from Rick Wilson).
6. Thanks again to Tom Goreau for his added information below But your link to a “Brazil alone” article didn’t work for me; can you supply again? I’m impressed by “alone"
Ron
On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:06 AM, Thomas Goreau < goreau@...> wrote:
Excellent paper! Thirty years ago Norman Myers and I found there was enough abandoned land in Brazil alone to stabilize CO2.
The abandoned lands were basically composed of one weed tree that can’t be used for firewood, one thorny shrub that poisons cattle, and passion flower vine with beautiful flowers but no fruit, compared to hundreds of species in the original forest.
The forest had been maintained by internal nutrient cycling despite very poor soils, but burning and erosion causes the nutrients to be lost, so the ecosystem with the highest biomass and productivity turned into semi-desert scrub severely depleted of nutrients.
Turning invasive weeds to biochar to grow diverse food forests is the best use of this land.
We have proposed such projects to the India Forestry Department.
Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance Chief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc. Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK 37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
Books: Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(20)30363-8
Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth Yi Yang Sarah E. Hobbie Rebecca R. Hernandez Jacob M. Jungers Ming Yang Wei-Qiang Chen Show all authors
Summary Degraded farmlands have been abandoned worldwide, especially in high- and middle-income countries. These lands help combat climate change as they undergo natural recovery of vegetation and soil carbon and remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. However, recovery can be slow, requiring decades to centuries to approach pre-cultivation or natural states, and in some cases, soils remain degraded without active restoration. In this perspective, we present an overview of how carbon capture and storage on abandoned farmland can be accelerated and maximized via managing plant diversity as both a means and an end of restoration, creating and applying biochar to soil, and co-developing with renewable energy as techno-ecological synergies. These strategies can jointly tackle climate change and land degradation while contributing to and reinforcing multiple other Sustainable Development Goals. Although challenges exist, adoption of these strategies could be facilitated by increasing governmental and corporate initiatives at global and regional levels, especially developing carbon-offset markets for agriculture.
--
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Rick, I am to produce a soil amendment from a Milorganite type compost and biochar. Should I can just add raw char to the compost, bag it and let it impregnate itself with the mychorrizae by waiting an amount of time before I use the bagged product? Or do I have to do the more complcated (and expensive) prescribed method of inoculation? Thank you.
Thanks Ron for including me.
Along that line, I am in the Mojave this week planning three year trials (new and existing citrus plantings) with compost biochar amendments. See if we can get yields up where it makes sense. There is a huge aquifer under the Mojave, plenty of water.
Temperatures close by reached 130F a few days ago. Biochar could be a climate change adaptive technology.
Rick Wilson
List and Tom: cc Rick, (because he has commented on this list about abandoned land opportunities for biochar) Here below is notice of another important (non-fee) biochar article that started started on the CDR list. I changed the thread name slightly. If anyone wants to reply on the CDR list, probably best to not do both lists at once.
Ron Begin forwarded message:
Subject: Re: [CDR] Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth: One Earth
Date: August 23, 2020 at 5:44:51 PM MDT
Tom and CDR list; cc Andrew
2. I have one small nitpick - I believe they have not understood the big role that biochar will be playing in backing up wind and solar electric systems. About 1/3 of the way on p 181, they write: a. "One advantage of biomass is that it can be stored
inexpensively, allowing electricity to be produced on demand.” [RWL: True and very important. Not true for wind and solar PV. b. "However, the cost of renewables coupled with storage is reaching
price parity with biomass,98 and new energy-storage technologies
are being developed to further reduce these costs.101 [RWL: Also true. c. " In short,
compared with wind and solar energy, biomass presents few advantages for reducing GHG emissions. [RWL; Also mostly true. But what is missing is the huge cost of the long term electric battery storage when you are trying to remove the last fossil fuel portions (last 5-10% using natural gas peakers).
3. This is an excellent recent article thet predicts one has to almost double the needed electric generation if the needed reliability is met with electric storage batteries: Unfortunately this is not a freebie article, The situation is more dire than than this final sentence of the abstract: "Increasing storage duration increases storage value in some cases, but this increase in value may be insufficient to compensate for the increase in capital cost per kW even under the future cost scenario.”
. So this backup storage problem can’t be fixed with hydro, geothermal, etc. It can be fixed with biomass and especially biochar.
4. To repeat; this Yang et al article is the most biochar-supportive article I have read in a long time. I hope we can hear from anyone believing these authors have missed something.
5. I will now also send this exchange over to the biochar list, where this abandoned land topic came up a year or two ago (with support then especially from Rick Wilson).
6. Thanks again to Tom Goreau for his added information below But your link to a “Brazil alone” article didn’t work for me; can you supply again? I’m impressed by “alone"
Ron
On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:06 AM, Thomas Goreau < goreau@...> wrote:
Excellent paper! Thirty years ago Norman Myers and I found there was enough abandoned land in Brazil alone to stabilize CO2.
The abandoned lands were basically composed of one weed tree that can’t be used for firewood, one thorny shrub that poisons cattle, and passion flower vine with beautiful flowers but no fruit, compared to hundreds of species in the original forest.
The forest had been maintained by internal nutrient cycling despite very poor soils, but burning and erosion causes the nutrients to be lost, so the ecosystem with the highest biomass and productivity turned into semi-desert scrub severely depleted of nutrients.
Turning invasive weeds to biochar to grow diverse food forests is the best use of this land.
We have proposed such projects to the India Forestry Department.
Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance Chief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc. Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK 37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
Books: Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(20)30363-8
Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth Yi Yang Sarah E. Hobbie Rebecca R. Hernandez Jacob M. Jungers Ming Yang Wei-Qiang Chen Show all authors
Summary Degraded farmlands have been abandoned worldwide, especially in high- and middle-income countries. These lands help combat climate change as they undergo natural recovery of vegetation and soil carbon and remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. However, recovery can be slow, requiring decades to centuries to approach pre-cultivation or natural states, and in some cases, soils remain degraded without active restoration. In this perspective, we present an overview of how carbon capture and storage on abandoned farmland can be accelerated and maximized via managing plant diversity as both a means and an end of restoration, creating and applying biochar to soil, and co-developing with renewable energy as techno-ecological synergies. These strategies can jointly tackle climate change and land degradation while contributing to and reinforcing multiple other Sustainable Development Goals. Although challenges exist, adoption of these strategies could be facilitated by increasing governmental and corporate initiatives at global and regional levels, especially developing carbon-offset markets for agriculture.
--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to CarbonDioxideRemoval+unsubscribe@....
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Thank you very much for pointing out the article by Yang et. al. This idea of a negative emissions system has been the focus of our development work for quite some time. We hope to develop a system of switchgrass/pyrolysis/renewable energy/biochar/grass vinegar that results in a negative carbon result, improved soils, and improved water quality.
All the pieces make sense, and the sum of the parts, looks excellent. The challenge is how to pay for it. We can compete on a BTU basis with fuel oil and LP. We can compete on a MWH basis with battery storage. We can compete on a BTU basis with wood pellets shipped to northern Europe. We are chasing all three markets.
Jeff
------------------------ Jeff Waldon, Managing Partner Restoration Bioproducts LLC 540-230-2854 cell jwaldon@...
On 8/24/2020 10:54:22 AM, Tom Stephan <tom@...> wrote: Rick, I am to produce a soil amendment from a Milorganite type compost and biochar. Should I can just add raw char to the compost, bag it and let it impregnate itself with the mychorrizae by waiting an amount of time before I use the bagged product? Or do I have to do the more complcated (and expensive) prescribed method of inoculation? Thank you. Thanks Ron for including me.
Along that line, I am in the Mojave this week planning three year trials (new and existing citrus plantings) with compost biochar amendments. See if we can get yields up where it makes sense. There is a huge aquifer under the Mojave, plenty of water.
Temperatures close by reached 130F a few days ago. Biochar could be a climate change adaptive technology.
Rick Wilson
List and Tom: cc Rick, (because he has commented on this list about abandoned land opportunities for biochar) Here below is notice of another important (non-fee) biochar article that started started on the CDR list. I changed the thread name slightly. If anyone wants to reply on the CDR list, probably best to not do both lists at once.
Ron Begin forwarded message:
Subject: Re: [CDR] Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth: One Earth
Date: August 23, 2020 at 5:44:51 PM MDT
Tom and CDR list; cc Andrew
2. I have one small nitpick - I believe they have not understood the big role that biochar will be playing in backing up wind and solar electric systems. About 1/3 of the way on p 181, they write: a. "One advantage of biomass is that it can be stored
inexpensively, allowing electricity to be produced on demand.” [RWL: True and very important. Not true for wind and solar PV. b. "However, the cost of renewables coupled with storage is reaching
price parity with biomass,98 and new energy-storage technologies
are being developed to further reduce these costs.101 [RWL: Also true. c. " In short,
compared with wind and solar energy, biomass presents few advantages for reducing GHG emissions. [RWL; Also mostly true. But what is missing is the huge cost of the long term electric battery storage when you are trying to remove the last fossil fuel portions (last 5-10% using natural gas peakers).
3. This is an excellent recent article thet predicts one has to almost double the needed electric generation if the needed reliability is met with electric storage batteries: Unfortunately this is not a freebie article, The situation is more dire than than this final sentence of the abstract: "Increasing storage duration increases storage value in some cases, but this increase in value may be insufficient to compensate for the increase in capital cost per kW even under the future cost scenario.”
. So this backup storage problem can’t be fixed with hydro, geothermal, etc. It can be fixed with biomass and especially biochar.
4. To repeat; this Yang et al article is the most biochar-supportive article I have read in a long time. I hope we can hear from anyone believing these authors have missed something.
5. I will now also send this exchange over to the biochar list, where this abandoned land topic came up a year or two ago (with support then especially from Rick Wilson).
6. Thanks again to Tom Goreau for his added information below But your link to a “Brazil alone” article didn’t work for me; can you supply again? I’m impressed by “alone"
Ron
On Aug 23, 2020, at 5:06 AM, Thomas Goreau < goreau@...> wrote:
Excellent paper! Thirty years ago Norman Myers and I found there was enough abandoned land in Brazil alone to stabilize CO2.
The abandoned lands were basically composed of one weed tree that can’t be used for firewood, one thorny shrub that poisons cattle, and passion flower vine with beautiful flowers but no fruit, compared to hundreds of species in the original forest.
The forest had been maintained by internal nutrient cycling despite very poor soils, but burning and erosion causes the nutrients to be lost, so the ecosystem with the highest biomass and productivity turned into semi-desert scrub severely depleted of nutrients.
Turning invasive weeds to biochar to grow diverse food forests is the best use of this land.
We have proposed such projects to the India Forestry Department.
Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance Chief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc. Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK 37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
Books: Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(20)30363-8
Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth Yi Yang Sarah E. Hobbie Rebecca R. Hernandez Jacob M. Jungers Ming Yang Wei-Qiang Chen Show all authors
Summary Degraded farmlands have been abandoned worldwide, especially in high- and middle-income countries. These lands help combat climate change as they undergo natural recovery of vegetation and soil carbon and remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. However, recovery can be slow, requiring decades to centuries to approach pre-cultivation or natural states, and in some cases, soils remain degraded without active restoration. In this perspective, we present an overview of how carbon capture and storage on abandoned farmland can be accelerated and maximized via managing plant diversity as both a means and an end of restoration, creating and applying biochar to soil, and co-developing with renewable energy as techno-ecological synergies. These strategies can jointly tackle climate change and land degradation while contributing to and reinforcing multiple other Sustainable Development Goals. Although challenges exist, adoption of these strategies could be facilitated by increasing governmental and corporate initiatives at global and regional levels, especially developing carbon-offset markets for agriculture.
--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to CarbonDioxideRemoval+unsubscribe@....
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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
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Tom,
What is the target purpose of the char/compost blend......?
Mike
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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To offer a new line of products targeting agriculture(winegrapes)and in the landscape. Why?
Tom,
What is the target purpose of the char/compost blend......?
Mike
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Tom,
Just pulling the string of curiosity...... by using the term ."Milogranite" is it assumed that it is composted human biosolids.....?
We have a local product here called Milogranite made from biosolids......
Mike
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Yes that is correct. Holistic Dr. Mercola derided Milorganite however on one of his tubes. His thoughts were to "avoid it like the plague," because of the auto industry polluting the tri city sewer systems. This solid is from a small city who has little in the way of industry. Should make good worm farm feed. Another ingredient to my future soil product.
Tom,
Just pulling the string of curiosity...... by using the term ."Milogranite" is it assumed that it is composted human biosolids.....?
We have a local product here called Milogranite made from biosolids......
Mike
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
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Correction. "bern soon to spoon fed. Sorry. It was 4:a.m. est.
Bob, Bio char is not in equal footing with wind farms. It is far more beneficial. I am a fifty plus year, veteran master falconer and former raptor propagator.Windmills kill hundreds of Golden Eagles per year. Just the Alta Mont Pass, Ca. facility alone kills on average 64 eagles per year. They install the turbines directly in the raptor's migration paths for the same reason the raptors are there, for the wind. But that's not the worst of it. If you or I killed eagles or destroyed their habitat, the government would force us to mitigate. But Barry Sotollo, alias "Obama" passed a corporate criminal "Eagle act" (sounds so loving huh?) allowing wind energy to kill these birds and get off Scott free. It's a crime as they say. Why dont we hear about in the news? Fake news. Research my claim yourself and you will see that I am correct. I have tried to innocently get the news companies to give this story some ink but to no avail. I was naive.The only person to mention that birds are dying due to these hawk blenders is president Trump. This may cause some controversy but we have bern soon fed a lie.
Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
-- Tom Stephan | Owner Air Superiority
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could this be a solution to wind and birds?
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You lost me at "Barry Sotollo", which is a racist myth. Nobody else blamed Trump either.
This kind of posting does not belong here. Maybe you don't belong here.
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Tom, do you know if wind energy is lower cost than PV? Rick
On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:18 AM, Tom Stephan < tom@...> wrote:
Bob, Bio char is not in equal footing with wind farms. It is far more beneficial. I am a fifty plus year, veteran master falconer and former raptor propagator.Windmills kill hundreds of Golden Eagles per year. Just the Alta Mont Pass, Ca. facility alone kills on average 64 eagles per year. They install the turbines directly in the raptor's migration paths for the same reason the raptors are there, for the wind. But that's not the worst of it. If you or I killed eagles or destroyed their habitat, the government would force us to mitigate. But Barry Sotollo, alias "Obama" passed a corporate criminal "Eagle act" (sounds so loving huh?) allowing wind energy to kill these birds and get off Scott free. It's a crime as they say. Why dont we hear about in the news? Fake news. Research my claim yourself and you will see that I am correct. I have tried to innocently get the news companies to give this story some ink but to no avail. I was naive.The only person to mention that birds are dying due to these hawk blenders is president Trump. This may cause some controversy but we have bern soon fed a lie. Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
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Do you have real data on this? The data from Audubon indicates that yes, birds do die, but far less now than was the case with Altamont in the past when they
were aerial Cuisinart’s. Blade speed has changed as the size of the turbine has grown making them far less of a threat. The biggest killer of birds, by far, are house cats and feral cats (3 billion), followed by plate glass windows (1 billion). Wind turbines
are a couple orders of magnitude less (between 150,000 and 500,000). [https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthusiasts/threats-to-birds/collisions/wind-turbines.php]
Yes, turbines do kill larger birds more than smaller ones, but even this is much reduced from the past, so I am not sure that you argument holds. Meanwhile, back to biochar.
Wayne
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Tom Stephan
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 2:35 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth: One Earth
Thank you for this offer of a solution to raptor mortality due to wind turbines.
The standard of addressing impact to our resources is for the government to force us(citizens and corporations alike) to mitigate at their prescribed rate of monetary reimbursement. These funds go to protect habitat, pay for studies and
deploy technology needed to lesson the impact on that species.
The Obama Eagle act absolved investors of any responsibility in this regard. We call this "Chrony Capitalism". This is as un American as Sotolo is.
If you or I shot and killed an eagle, it would get air time internationally. But not for the cigar chewers.
Migration season is just now starting. For the next three months the crescendo of snapping bones and falling feathers will commence again for another season of the "Grand Passage", now not so grand anymore. Rachel Carson was right but
she had no idea how it would come. Free solar power hitting the surface of the planet heating it up but not hitting a solar panel is a shame. Killing eagles in the name of environmentalism is a sham.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 1:00 PM Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...> wrote:
could this be a solution to wind and birds?
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Wayne, tom,
Take the birds offline. It’s not relevant to biochar an belongs in other forums.
Thanks
Tom
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teel, Wayne
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 1:22 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth: One Earth Do you have real data on this? The data from Audubon indicates that yes, birds do die, but far less now than was the case with Altamont in the past when they were aerial Cuisinart’s. Blade speed has changed as the size of the turbine has grown making them far less of a threat. The biggest killer of birds, by far, are house cats and feral cats (3 billion), followed by plate glass windows (1 billion). Wind turbines are a couple orders of magnitude less (between 150,000 and 500,000). [https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthusiasts/threats-to-birds/collisions/wind-turbines.php] Yes, turbines do kill larger birds more than smaller ones, but even this is much reduced from the past, so I am not sure that you argument holds. Meanwhile, back to biochar. Wayne From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Stephan
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 2:35 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Restoring Abandoned Farmland to Mitigate Climate Change on a Full Earth: One Earth Thank you for this offer of a solution to raptor mortality due to wind turbines. The standard of addressing impact to our resources is for the government to force us(citizens and corporations alike) to mitigate at their prescribed rate of monetary reimbursement. These funds go to protect habitat, pay for studies and deploy technology needed to lesson the impact on that species. The Obama Eagle act absolved investors of any responsibility in this regard. We call this "Chrony Capitalism". This is as un American as Sotolo is. If you or I shot and killed an eagle, it would get air time internationally. But not for the cigar chewers. Migration season is just now starting. For the next three months the crescendo of snapping bones and falling feathers will commence again for another season of the "Grand Passage", now not so grand anymore. Rachel Carson was right but she had no idea how it would come. Free solar power hitting the surface of the planet heating it up but not hitting a solar panel is a shame. Killing eagles in the name of environmentalism is a sham. On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 1:00 PM Kelpie Wilson <kelpiew@...> wrote: could this be a solution to wind and birds?
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Paint one prop black on the windmill, and the birds will miss it. I heard this works. Do I know fact? No, I don't David
David R Derbowka Chief Executive Officer Passive Remediation Systems Ltd.
Tel: +1 250 306 6377 |
Tom, do you know if wind energy is lower cost than PV? Rick On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:18 AM, Tom Stephan < tom@...> wrote:
Bob, Bio char is not in equal footing with wind farms. It is far more beneficial. I am a fifty plus year, veteran master falconer and former raptor propagator.Windmills kill hundreds of Golden Eagles per year. Just the Alta Mont Pass, Ca. facility alone kills on average 64 eagles per year. They install the turbines directly in the raptor's migration paths for the same reason the raptors are there, for the wind. But that's not the worst of it. If you or I killed eagles or destroyed their habitat, the government would force us to mitigate. But Barry Sotollo, alias "Obama" passed a corporate criminal "Eagle act" (sounds so loving huh?) allowing wind energy to kill these birds and get off Scott free. It's a crime as they say. Why dont we hear about in the news? Fake news. Research my claim yourself and you will see that I am correct. I have tried to innocently get the news companies to give this story some ink but to no avail. I was naive.The only person to mention that birds are dying due to these hawk blenders is president Trump. This may cause some controversy but we have bern soon fed a lie. Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
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At least it's an attempt. Unlike the reality of this situation currently. I think they are an eyesore too.
Paint one prop black on the windmill, and the birds will miss it. I heard this works. Do I know fact? No, I don't David
David R Derbowka Chief Executive Officer Passive Remediation Systems Ltd.
Tel: +1 250 306 6377 |
Tom, do you know if wind energy is lower cost than PV? Rick On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:18 AM, Tom Stephan < tom@...> wrote:
Bob, Bio char is not in equal footing with wind farms. It is far more beneficial. I am a fifty plus year, veteran master falconer and former raptor propagator.Windmills kill hundreds of Golden Eagles per year. Just the Alta Mont Pass, Ca. facility alone kills on average 64 eagles per year. They install the turbines directly in the raptor's migration paths for the same reason the raptors are there, for the wind. But that's not the worst of it. If you or I killed eagles or destroyed their habitat, the government would force us to mitigate. But Barry Sotollo, alias "Obama" passed a corporate criminal "Eagle act" (sounds so loving huh?) allowing wind energy to kill these birds and get off Scott free. It's a crime as they say. Why dont we hear about in the news? Fake news. Research my claim yourself and you will see that I am correct. I have tried to innocently get the news companies to give this story some ink but to no avail. I was naive.The only person to mention that birds are dying due to these hawk blenders is president Trump. This may cause some controversy but we have bern soon fed a lie. Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
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I spoke once at MENSAS group. I explained the global threat to the world's raptors due to wind energy and the abandonment of mitigation by puppet dictators. There was a flurry of suggestions about how to scare away the eagles to prevent them from harm due to the wind turbines. One suggestion that I think needs to be tried is a whistle mounted on on the tip of the blades. Perhaps the combo of a black painted blade and the other unpainted blade with a whistle might work. But this still does not address the fact that for millions of years the birds have migrated down the spines of these north / south directed mountain ranges. They need to pass through there unimpeded. They expend far too much in the way of calories during migration if they are forced out of these gusty areas. They will "run out of gas" in many circumstances, and perish from fatigue if forced out of there birdie freeways. What if we were cruising down a freeway and suddenly there were concrete hurdles in our lanes? But this topic is a discussion for a different forum unless somehow Bio Char can be brought forth as a tool to mitigate for the loss of energy now supplied by wind. So I yield back my time to the topic at hand, wonderful bio char. Thanks for listening.
At least it's an attempt. Unlike the reality of this situation currently. I think they are an eyesore too.
Paint one prop black on the windmill, and the birds will miss it. I heard this works. Do I know fact? No, I don't David
David R Derbowka Chief Executive Officer Passive Remediation Systems Ltd.
Tel: +1 250 306 6377 |
Tom, do you know if wind energy is lower cost than PV? Rick On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:18 AM, Tom Stephan < tom@...> wrote:
Bob, Bio char is not in equal footing with wind farms. It is far more beneficial. I am a fifty plus year, veteran master falconer and former raptor propagator.Windmills kill hundreds of Golden Eagles per year. Just the Alta Mont Pass, Ca. facility alone kills on average 64 eagles per year. They install the turbines directly in the raptor's migration paths for the same reason the raptors are there, for the wind. But that's not the worst of it. If you or I killed eagles or destroyed their habitat, the government would force us to mitigate. But Barry Sotollo, alias "Obama" passed a corporate criminal "Eagle act" (sounds so loving huh?) allowing wind energy to kill these birds and get off Scott free. It's a crime as they say. Why dont we hear about in the news? Fake news. Research my claim yourself and you will see that I am correct. I have tried to innocently get the news companies to give this story some ink but to no avail. I was naive.The only person to mention that birds are dying due to these hawk blenders is president Trump. This may cause some controversy but we have bern soon fed a lie. Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
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Rick, I believe that both PV solar and wind energy are both very cost competitive with fossil fuels now. Whether one or the other is lower cost will likely depend on the particular location—average wind speed, number of sunny days per year.
On Aug 27, 2020, at 4:18 PM, Rick Wilson via groups.io < rick012@...> wrote: Tom, do you know if wind energy is lower cost than PV? Rick On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:18 AM, Tom Stephan < tom@...> wrote:
Bob, Bio char is not in equal footing with wind farms. It is far more beneficial. I am a fifty plus year, veteran master falconer and former raptor propagator.Windmills kill hundreds of Golden Eagles per year. Just the Alta Mont Pass, Ca. facility alone kills on average 64 eagles per year. They install the turbines directly in the raptor's migration paths for the same reason the raptors are there, for the wind. But that's not the worst of it. If you or I killed eagles or destroyed their habitat, the government would force us to mitigate. But Barry Sotollo, alias "Obama" passed a corporate criminal "Eagle act" (sounds so loving huh?) allowing wind energy to kill these birds and get off Scott free. It's a crime as they say. Why dont we hear about in the news? Fake news. Research my claim yourself and you will see that I am correct. I have tried to innocently get the news companies to give this story some ink but to no avail. I was naive.The only person to mention that birds are dying due to these hawk blenders is president Trump. This may cause some controversy but we have bern soon fed a lie. Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
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Thanks Kim, Just wondering if PV or solar had the lower installed cost. Rick
Rick,I believe that both PV solar and wind energy are both very cost competitive with fossil fuels now. Whether one or the other is lower cost will likely depend on the particular location—average wind speed, number of sunny days per year. Kim Tom, do you know if wind energy is lower cost than PV? Rick On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:18 AM, Tom Stephan < tom@...> wrote:
Bob, Bio char is not in equal footing with wind farms. It is far more beneficial. I am a fifty plus year, veteran master falconer and former raptor propagator.Windmills kill hundreds of Golden Eagles per year. Just the Alta Mont Pass, Ca. facility alone kills on average 64 eagles per year. They install the turbines directly in the raptor's migration paths for the same reason the raptors are there, for the wind. But that's not the worst of it. If you or I killed eagles or destroyed their habitat, the government would force us to mitigate. But Barry Sotollo, alias "Obama" passed a corporate criminal "Eagle act" (sounds so loving huh?) allowing wind energy to kill these birds and get off Scott free. It's a crime as they say. Why dont we hear about in the news? Fake news. Research my claim yourself and you will see that I am correct. I have tried to innocently get the news companies to give this story some ink but to no avail. I was naive.The only person to mention that birds are dying due to these hawk blenders is president Trump. This may cause some controversy but we have bern soon fed a lie. Ron,
It is great to see these authors put biochar for soil on an equal footing with solar and wind power, which are much farther along in deployment. Solar panel manufacturing in Asia made a big difference in the economics of that industry here in the U.S. Booming biochar production in China may have a similar effect, but borne out of geopolitical rivalry since it doesn't work well as a global export.
What I think they missed, in trying to show ways of supplying energy while restoring co-located vegetation, is the heat energy that might be used where the biochar is produced. That could be of some benefit if it is set forth as an objective in designing these arrangements.
Bob
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