|
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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Hi Kevin and all,
You are using biochar appropriately to mitigate biological waste, preserve it from gassing off, and to prepare the valuable waste into fertilizer for your garden soil. Uniformity of biochar and biological waste is a problem so I always consider it too strong,
unbalanced, or otherwise unfit for direct application to the garden soil. I have always found it judicious to mix that strong mix in with the general compost material for the ultimate going over and transition into the proper chemical species and redox for
edible plants. All of this mellowing out of the harsh is done for free by your little friends in the compost piles.
The safe practice is to avoid the direct application of potentially infected night soil into growing beds. Endemic diseases found in Africa
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/disease.html are unlikely to be found in you or in the whole USA because we wisely use compost piles made of known inputs and the
conditions for the existence of the disease do not exist here. I have not seen a case in my life and only studied it in advanced medical microbiology labs, so I think you are safe
But if you are in fear, you can always mask up if it makes you feel better. LOL
Trust your biochar and the microbiology of a compost pile to make raw inputs safe for use. If it is disgusting and terrible, it is. If it is cool, sweet, and pleasantly aromatic, it is ready for use in your garden.
Cheers,
Jim
|
Links with this icon indicate that you are leaving the CDC website.. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) cannot attest to the accuracy of a non-federal website. Linking to a non-federal website does not constitute an endorsement by CDC or any
of its employees of the sponsors or the information and products presented on the website.
www.cdc.gov
|
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> on behalf of Kevin McLean <info@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 5:09 AM
To: Biochar Listserv <biochar@groups.io>
Subject: [Biochar] Sterilize Biochar Charged with Urine
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The
WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar
charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President
Sun24
Tampa, Florida, USA
+1 (813) 505-3340
|
|
|
Tom Stephan: This is a biochar forum, not an outlet for conspiracy theories of any kind. If you have one, take it someplace else.
Wayne
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Tom Stephan
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 5:04 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Sterilize Biochar Charged with Urine
Jim. Yes, masks LOL, are the timid's security blankets. I did my due diligence 5 months ago by walking into two ERs, then calling my surgeon and talking to nurses in my family. Although the TV news showed hospital personnel working on many
dying patients, I found nothing of the sort. Back then I informed as many as would listen that the pandemic is a hoax. The response was less than kind.
Last week the CDC published their audit findings, 9,200 total deaths due to Covid worldwide! But yet no one acts to stop the wearing of masks because they fail to look for themselves.
The "pandemic" will go down in history as one of the greatest hoaxes of all time. Right up there with the "Piltdown Man" and Fractional Reserve Banking.
The only thing scary to me about the pandemic is how readily the ignorant give up their rights to a psychopathic world government.
This "Deep State" government funded by Wall st. banksters are not profiting from bio- char, so it's not threatened by them yet. Right now they are merely ignoring it. When I begin marketing my products next year they, in all likelihood
will attack my company, following a pattern of harrassment, IRS audits, denial of a 501c-3, property confiscation and dragging me through court, which began by the Obama administration.
They are now responsible for the deaths occurring from lowered immune systems due to people breathing their own bodily wastes.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020, 2:42 PM jim karnofski <karnask@...> wrote:
You are using biochar appropriately to mitigate biological waste, preserve it from gassing off, and to prepare the valuable waste into fertilizer for your
garden soil. Uniformity of biochar and biological waste is a problem so I always consider it too strong, unbalanced, or otherwise unfit for direct application to the garden soil. I have always found it judicious to mix that strong mix in with the general compost
material for the ultimate going over and transition into the proper chemical species and redox for edible plants. All of this mellowing out of the harsh is done for free by your little friends in the compost piles.
The safe practice is to avoid the direct application of potentially infected night soil into growing beds. Endemic diseases found in Africa
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/disease.html are unlikely to be found in you or in the whole USA because we wisely use compost piles made of known inputs and the conditions for the existence of the disease do not exist here. I have not seen
a case in my life and only studied it in advanced medical microbiology labs, so I think you are safe
But if you are in fear, you can always mask up if it makes you feel better. LOL
Trust your biochar and the microbiology of a compost pile to make raw inputs safe for use. If it is disgusting and terrible, it is. If it is cool, sweet,
and pleasantly aromatic, it is ready for use in your garden.
Links with this icon indicate that you are leaving the CDC website.. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) cannot attest to the accuracy of a
non-federal website. Linking to a non-federal website does not constitute an endorsement by CDC or any of its employees of the sponsors or the information and products presented on the website.
|
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The
WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar
charged with urine (or manure)?
|
|
|
Thank you Wayne!
To the original post, if one does not have a bladder infection, urine is sterile when it leaves the body. Most environmental regulations recognize that it can be easily contaminated with fecal matter, depending on how it is collected. If you’re a backyard guy collecting it in a bucket , you probably don’t have to worry. If the collection system has room for fecal or other contamination that’s a different story.
JB
On Sep 5, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Teel, Wayne <teelws@...> wrote:
Tom Stephan: This is a biochar forum, not an outlet for conspiracy theories of any kind. If you have one, take it someplace else.
Wayne
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Tom Stephan
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 5:04 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Sterilize Biochar Charged with Urine
Jim. Yes, masks LOL, are the timid's security blankets. I did my due diligence 5 months ago by walking into two ERs, then calling my surgeon and talking to nurses in my family. Although the TV news showed hospital personnel working on many
dying patients, I found nothing of the sort. Back then I informed as many as would listen that the pandemic is a hoax. The response was less than kind.
Last week the CDC published their audit findings, 9,200 total deaths due to Covid worldwide! But yet no one acts to stop the wearing of masks because they fail to look for themselves.
The "pandemic" will go down in history as one of the greatest hoaxes of all time. Right up there with the "Piltdown Man" and Fractional Reserve Banking.
The only thing scary to me about the pandemic is how readily the ignorant give up their rights to a psychopathic world government.
This "Deep State" government funded by Wall st. banksters are not profiting from bio- char, so it's not threatened by them yet. Right now they are merely ignoring it. When I begin marketing my products next year they, in all likelihood
will attack my company, following a pattern of harrassment, IRS audits, denial of a 501c-3, property confiscation and dragging me through court, which began by the Obama administration.
They are now responsible for the deaths occurring from lowered immune systems due to people breathing their own bodily wastes.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020, 2:42 PM jim karnofski <karnask@...> wrote:
You are using biochar appropriately to mitigate biological waste, preserve it from gassing off, and to prepare the valuable waste into fertilizer for your
garden soil. Uniformity of biochar and biological waste is a problem so I always consider it too strong, unbalanced, or otherwise unfit for direct application to the garden soil. I have always found it judicious to mix that strong mix in with the general compost
material for the ultimate going over and transition into the proper chemical species and redox for edible plants. All of this mellowing out of the harsh is done for free by your little friends in the compost piles.
The safe practice is to avoid the direct application of potentially infected night soil into growing beds. Endemic diseases found in Africa
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/disease.html are unlikely to be found in you or in the whole USA because we wisely use compost piles made of known inputs and the conditions for the existence of the disease do not exist here. I have not seen
a case in my life and only studied it in advanced medical microbiology labs, so I think you are safe
But if you are in fear, you can always mask up if it makes you feel better. LOL
Trust your biochar and the microbiology of a compost pile to make raw inputs safe for use. If it is disgusting and terrible, it is. If it is cool, sweet,
and pleasantly aromatic, it is ready for use in your garden.
Links with this icon indicate that you are leaving the CDC website.. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) cannot attest to the accuracy of a
non-federal website. Linking to a non-federal website does not constitute an endorsement by CDC or any of its employees of the sponsors or the information and products presented on the website.
|
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The
WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar
charged with urine (or manure)?
<~WRD000.jpg> <~WRD000.jpg>
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Wayne and others. Thank you for your messages. This is a technical, not a political, forum. Policy discussion here only relate to biochars and biochar use. Tom Stephan’s messages will now be moderated and the political messages have been deleted. Thanks for your cooperation. Tom Miles List Owner
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Thank you Tom. Sent from my mobile
On Sep 5, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Tom Miles <tmiles@...> wrote: Wayne and others. Thank you for your messages. This is a technical, not a political, forum. Policy discussion here only relate to biochars and biochar use. Tom Stephan’s messages will now be moderated and the political messages have been deleted. Thanks for your cooperation. Tom Miles List Owner
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Tom, Take it somewhere else not here. Francesco
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020, 17:01 Tom Stephan < tom@...> wrote: "Conspiracy theory" is a term invented originally by the C!A to marginalize truth seekers.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020, 6:24 PM Teel, Wayne < teelws@...> wrote:
Tom Stephan: This is a biochar forum, not an outlet for conspiracy theories of any kind. If you have one, take it someplace else.
Wayne
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Tom Stephan
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 5:04 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Sterilize Biochar Charged with Urine
Jim. Yes, masks LOL, are the timid's security blankets. I did my due diligence 5 months ago by walking into two ERs, then calling my surgeon and talking to nurses in my family. Although the TV news showed hospital personnel working on many
dying patients, I found nothing of the sort. Back then I informed as many as would listen that the pandemic is a hoax. The response was less than kind.
Last week the CDC published their audit findings, 9,200 total deaths due to Covid worldwide! But yet no one acts to stop the wearing of masks because they fail to look for themselves.
The "pandemic" will go down in history as one of the greatest hoaxes of all time. Right up there with the "Piltdown Man" and Fractional Reserve Banking.
The only thing scary to me about the pandemic is how readily the ignorant give up their rights to a psychopathic world government.
This "Deep State" government funded by Wall st. banksters are not profiting from bio- char, so it's not threatened by them yet. Right now they are merely ignoring it. When I begin marketing my products next year they, in all likelihood
will attack my company, following a pattern of harrassment, IRS audits, denial of a 501c-3, property confiscation and dragging me through court, which began by the Obama administration.
They are now responsible for the deaths occurring from lowered immune systems due to people breathing their own bodily wastes.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020, 2:42 PM jim karnofski <karnask@...> wrote:
You are using biochar appropriately to mitigate biological waste, preserve it from gassing off, and to prepare the valuable waste into fertilizer for your
garden soil. Uniformity of biochar and biological waste is a problem so I always consider it too strong, unbalanced, or otherwise unfit for direct application to the garden soil. I have always found it judicious to mix that strong mix in with the general compost
material for the ultimate going over and transition into the proper chemical species and redox for edible plants. All of this mellowing out of the harsh is done for free by your little friends in the compost piles.
The safe practice is to avoid the direct application of potentially infected night soil into growing beds. Endemic diseases found in Africa
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/schistosomiasis/disease.html are unlikely to be found in you or in the whole USA because we wisely use compost piles made of known inputs and the conditions for the existence of the disease do not exist here. I have not seen
a case in my life and only studied it in advanced medical microbiology labs, so I think you are safe
But if you are in fear, you can always mask up if it makes you feel better. LOL
Trust your biochar and the microbiology of a compost pile to make raw inputs safe for use. If it is disgusting and terrible, it is. If it is cool, sweet,
and pleasantly aromatic, it is ready for use in your garden.
Links with this icon indicate that you are leaving the CDC website.. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) cannot attest to the accuracy of a
non-federal website. Linking to a non-federal website does not constitute an endorsement by CDC or any of its employees of the sponsors or the information and products presented on the website.
|
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The
WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar
charged with urine (or manure)?
|
|
|
you wanna process urine? lactobacillus. if you can't come up with another culture, use saurkraut juice. for a quick read about this, check hans-peter schmdt's article on "manure handling" on the ithaka institut website. for a green & peaceful planet, david yarrow
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:40 AM Kevin McLean <info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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We are talking about two human, (and other,) excretions, piss and shit, and much research all over the world has found Piss and Biochar to be a very quick and highly successful team.
Not so clear with the rear end excrement.
With the always danger of being judged, I would like to ask all to consider my opinions - yes a long term Biochar person but also with a Bio Dynamics background, - Bio-Dynamics being a more spiritual mode of growing food, and therefore able to look from different points of view.
Steiner, - the founder of Biodynamics, maintains that when a human being consumes healthy food, he/she drives that food/substance into chaos, ie creates new substance that was not before, and so that substance needs to be treated in a different way from Urine.
This may sound crazy for Materialistic persons, but I am only asking for a consideration of a broader picture.
Given, that the human being can drive food into Chaos, - thus New substance/ matter etc, it requires different treatment, - it is too strong in a normal compost, better to put in a field nutrition situation then put in a normal compost after that earlier compost has broken down.
Just explaining, although not requiring your acceptance, - traditions all over the world, - by no means in agreement, but the excrement of Humans should not be used as straight compost but put through a heap and then a growth second, ie spread over a field, and then the grass, etc. made into compost when it has broken down enough.
I would think that going through an aneorobic digester, eg the Ghandian Gobar Gas concept, would be fine, as it does that two stage transformation, human to animal then animal to vegetable.
Whilst one may accept the idea of sharing from higher beings or not, it is important that Human Poo be not mixed with Human urine in any significant way if it can be separated and treated differently.
Hoping that resonates with some and assists with the treatment/composting, etc of these two important substances.
Time may help, but accurate processing may be far more efficacious, and time requires much storage, so more expense.
I welcome any other thoughts on this matter.
Cheers, Geoff Thomas, Australia
On 5 Sep 2020, at 10:09 pm, Kevin McLean < info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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I'm sorry, I should have been more clear in my initial post. I want to know if urine can be sterilized by adding char and/or ash. I am not seeking alternative methods of sterilization.
Sun24 works with millions of poor smallholder farmers in a dozen African countries. We can train on a mass scale if the model is extremely simple. Training will fail if the model is complicated.
We want to train smallholder farmers to use urine as fertilizer. The WHO is clear that family farmers can use their own urine to fertilize their own crop for their own consumption. If their urine contains pathogens, those pathogens are far more likely to be transmitted among family members by other means. No storage or other sterilization methods are recommended.
We intend to recommend the smallholder farmer add biochar to the urine because of the many additional benefits biochar will add. The farmers can add wood charcoal which is widely available at a cost.
We are also testing the Agwa cookstove, a crude, inexpensive (<$2) TLUD that burns crop waste and makes char with some fuels (eg., maize cobs, maize stalks, bamboo). In a distribution model we are testing in several East African countries, we are giving 2,200 Agwas to women. In exchange the women will make and return two large charcoal sacks filled with cob char. Then they can make char for their own use.
What to do with these sacks of cob char is the subject of this post. I want to mix the char into urine and apply the mixture on larger farms that sell their produce. Therefore, sterilization is necessary. I hope urine/char can be applied without storing. (Char made in the Agwa will necessarily have ash, too.)
My African colleagues tell me they can collect urine using this method, which they are now testing: 1. Put char into 20L jerrycans. This keeps the urine from stinking. 2. Put a funnel into the opening. 3. Place the jerrycans in a public place and invite boys to urinate in it.
The WHO article thoroughly analyzes pathogens in urine and gives recommendations on sterilizing urine for use as fertilizer, though it primarily addresses "urine mixture" containing flushwater from urine diversion devices. The article notes that high PH may deactivate pathogens but this is hard to separate from the effect of ammonia. I found websites that say storage of urine raises PH which kills pathogens, but these websites contain no citations. Many scientific articles say that pathogens thrive in acidic environments and die in alkaline environments, but they do not specifically address urine sterilization.
I think this occurs with the addition of char/ash to urine: 1. The PH is raised. 2. The formation of ammonia is retarded. (We find that old urine with char/ash does not stink, a huge plus for those working with it.)
Will char/ash quickly sterilize urine? Or, will the mixture still need to be stored for a month? Or, because ammonia will not be produced, will char render storage an ineffective sterilization method?
Again, simplicity is critical to our ability to train at scale in Africa.
Thanks for the help. Kevin On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:09 AM K McLean <info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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Environmental Industries <licusociety@...>
Interesting. I am still learning. The issue on sterilization of urine. May be we need to learn the definition of sterilization.
What I know is that once you subject urine to airtight storage, the chemistry changes with the pH moving from 4.5 (acidic) to pH 8-9 (alkaline). At alkaline stage the substance is so salty that pathogens cannot survive and stinking ceases. Is that not sterilization? And if you add char, it will have the same effect of increasing the pH beyond 7, making it alkaline too.
So can someone school me what kind of sterilization we are looking for?
On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 4:05 PM Kevin McLean <info@... wrote:
I'm sorry, I should have been more clear in my initial post. I want to know if urine can be sterilized by adding char and/or ash. I am not seeking alternative methods of sterilization.
Sun24 works with millions of poor smallholder farmers in a dozen African countries. We can train on a mass scale if the model is extremely simple. Training will fail if the model is complicated.
We want to train smallholder farmers to use urine as fertilizer. The WHO is clear that family farmers can use their own urine to fertilize their own crop for their own consumption. If their urine contains pathogens, those pathogens are far more likely to be transmitted among family members by other means. No storage or other sterilization methods are recommended.
We intend to recommend the smallholder farmer add biochar to the urine because of the many additional benefits biochar will add. The farmers can add wood charcoal which is widely available at a cost.
We are also testing the Agwa cookstove, a crude, inexpensive (<$2) TLUD that burns crop waste and makes char with some fuels (eg., maize cobs, maize stalks, bamboo). In a distribution model we are testing in several East African countries, we are giving 2,200 Agwas to women. In exchange the women will make and return two large charcoal sacks filled with cob char. Then they can make char for their own use.
What to do with these sacks of cob char is the subject of this post. I want to mix the char into urine and apply the mixture on larger farms that sell their produce. Therefore, sterilization is necessary. I hope urine/char can be applied without storing. (Char made in the Agwa will necessarily have ash, too.)
My African colleagues tell me they can collect urine using this method, which they are now testing: 1. Put char into 20L jerrycans. This keeps the urine from stinking. 2. Put a funnel into the opening. 3. Place the jerrycans in a public place and invite boys to urinate in it.
The WHO article thoroughly analyzes pathogens in urine and gives recommendations on sterilizing urine for use as fertilizer, though it primarily addresses "urine mixture" containing flushwater from urine diversion devices. The article notes that high PH may deactivate pathogens but this is hard to separate from the effect of ammonia. I found websites that say storage of urine raises PH which kills pathogens, but these websites contain no citations. Many scientific articles say that pathogens thrive in acidic environments and die in alkaline environments, but they do not specifically address urine sterilization.
I think this occurs with the addition of char/ash to urine: 1. The PH is raised. 2. The formation of ammonia is retarded. (We find that old urine with char/ash does not stink, a huge plus for those working with it.)
Will char/ash quickly sterilize urine? Or, will the mixture still need to be stored for a month? Or, because ammonia will not be produced, will char render storage an ineffective sterilization method?
Again, simplicity is critical to our ability to train at scale in Africa.
Thanks for the help. Kevin
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:09 AM K McLean <info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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there are a few hidden false assumptions embedded in this question. the first is the very idea of "sterilization." pee & poop should not be stripped of biotic activity, or treated to kill anything. proper, natural degradation & stabilization of these "wastes" requires (indeed, is mostly) a biologic process driven by micro-organisms. any talk of "sterilization" moves the discussion and any solution in the wrong direction. "inoculation," "oxygenation" & "nutrient/ion balances" are better concepts to discuss this sanitation scenario.
another hidden assumption is it's all about bacteria. microbes, too, exist in ecosystems made of families, species & classes. fungi and other more complex microbes are crucial to stabilize "sanitary wastes" and not only render them safe, but return them to the "Soil Fertility Cycle" (now there's a lost concept!) for a green & peaceful planet, david yarrow
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:40 AM Kevin McLean <info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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d.michael.shafer@gmail.com
So, David, if I read you correctly, the notion is that there is no need to worry because in a complete system of bacteria, the "bad guys" will be reduced in number to such a minority that they will not be a problem?
Q: While this may work in the soil on the same model as "forests don't get sick," what about the poor schmuck whose personal biome is not balanced in a way to deal successfully with an unlucky dose of something he ought not be ingesting?
M  | | Dr. D. Michael Shafer
Founder and Director, Warm Heart | | |
On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 10:19 PM David Yarrow < dyarrow5@...> wrote: there are a few hidden false assumptions embedded in this question. the first is the very idea of "sterilization." pee & poop should not be stripped of biotic activity, or treated to kill anything. proper, natural degradation & stabilization of these "wastes" requires (indeed, is mostly) a biologic process driven by micro-organisms. any talk of "sterilization" moves the discussion and any solution in the wrong direction. "inoculation," "oxygenation" & "nutrient/ion balances" are better concepts to discuss this sanitation scenario.
another hidden assumption is it's all about bacteria. microbes, too, exist in ecosystems made of families, species & classes. fungi and other more complex microbes are crucial to stabilize "sanitary wastes" and not only render them safe, but return them to the "Soil Fertility Cycle" (now there's a lost concept!) for a green & peaceful planet, david yarrow
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:40 AM Kevin McLean <info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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|
The question: "I want to know if urine can be sterilized by adding char and/or ash. I am not seeking alternative methods of sterilization."
The simple answer is no. Sterilization means all microbiota will be killed. Biochar doesn't do that. Speculation about how pH may affect microbes or pathogens isn't sufficient to come to the conclusion that an assumed higher pH will "sterilize" urine. I say "assumed" because pH is dependent on pyrolysis conditions.
Once a mixture of biochar and urine are exposed to the environment, microbiota will grow on the mixture, even if it was sterilized by other means beforehand.
So I think your question is actually something along the lines of "Can the use of biochar interrupt the transmission of pathogens that cause disease in humans? If so, how?"
CarbonZero Sagl
CP 15
6999 Astano
Switzerland
+41 76 303 4477 cell / WhatsApp
skype: ariamedia
 ᐧ
So, David, if I read you correctly, the notion is that there is no need to worry because in a complete system of bacteria, the "bad guys" will be reduced in number to such a minority that they will not be a problem?
Q: While this may work in the soil on the same model as "forests don't get sick," what about the poor schmuck whose personal biome is not balanced in a way to deal successfully with an unlucky dose of something he ought not be ingesting?
M  | | Dr. D. Michael Shafer
Founder and Director, Warm Heart | | |
On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 10:19 PM David Yarrow < dyarrow5@...> wrote: there are a few hidden false assumptions embedded in this question. the first is the very idea of "sterilization." pee & poop should not be stripped of biotic activity, or treated to kill anything. proper, natural degradation & stabilization of these "wastes" requires (indeed, is mostly) a biologic process driven by micro-organisms. any talk of "sterilization" moves the discussion and any solution in the wrong direction. "inoculation," "oxygenation" & "nutrient/ion balances" are better concepts to discuss this sanitation scenario.
another hidden assumption is it's all about bacteria. microbes, too, exist in ecosystems made of families, species & classes. fungi and other more complex microbes are crucial to stabilize "sanitary wastes" and not only render them safe, but return them to the "Soil Fertility Cycle" (now there's a lost concept!) for a green & peaceful planet, david yarrow
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:40 AM Kevin McLean <info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
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Thomas Casten
Many trials compare conventional ag (read control) with control plus raw biochar, see flat or reduced yield on first harvest with BC, then end trial. BC practitioners like Michael Schafer add urine and compost BC prior to application. I term this "marination." My questions are: 1) what part of the marination first season benefit is due to removing wax/varnish of raw BC? 2) does urine alone facilitate wax removal? 3) what part of marination first year benefit due to loading BC with nutrients and symbiotic microbes? Tom Casten
On Mon, Sep 7, 2020, 5:45 AM Nando Breiter < nando@...> wrote: The question: "I want to know if urine can be sterilized by adding char and/or ash. I am not seeking alternative methods of sterilization."
The simple answer is no. Sterilization means all microbiota will be killed. Biochar doesn't do that. Speculation about how pH may affect microbes or pathogens isn't sufficient to come to the conclusion that an assumed higher pH will "sterilize" urine. I say "assumed" because pH is dependent on pyrolysis conditions.
Once a mixture of biochar and urine are exposed to the environment, microbiota will grow on the mixture, even if it was sterilized by other means beforehand.
So I think your question is actually something along the lines of "Can the use of biochar interrupt the transmission of pathogens that cause disease in humans? If so, how?"
CarbonZero Sagl
CP 15
6999 Astano
Switzerland
+41 76 303 4477 cell / WhatsApp
skype: ariamedia
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So, David, if I read you correctly, the notion is that there is no need to worry because in a complete system of bacteria, the "bad guys" will be reduced in number to such a minority that they will not be a problem?
Q: While this may work in the soil on the same model as "forests don't get sick," what about the poor schmuck whose personal biome is not balanced in a way to deal successfully with an unlucky dose of something he ought not be ingesting?
M | | | Dr. D. Michael Shafer
Founder and Director, Warm Heart | | |
On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 10:19 PM David Yarrow < dyarrow5@...> wrote: there are a few hidden false assumptions embedded in this question. the first is the very idea of "sterilization." pee & poop should not be stripped of biotic activity, or treated to kill anything. proper, natural degradation & stabilization of these "wastes" requires (indeed, is mostly) a biologic process driven by micro-organisms. any talk of "sterilization" moves the discussion and any solution in the wrong direction. "inoculation," "oxygenation" & "nutrient/ion balances" are better concepts to discuss this sanitation scenario.
another hidden assumption is it's all about bacteria. microbes, too, exist in ecosystems made of families, species & classes. fungi and other more complex microbes are crucial to stabilize "sanitary wastes" and not only render them safe, but return them to the "Soil Fertility Cycle" (now there's a lost concept!) for a green & peaceful planet, david yarrow
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:40 AM Kevin McLean <info@...> wrote:
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President Sun24 Tampa, Florida, USA +1 (813) 505-3340
--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland
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Kevin,
Urine charged biochar:
The purpose of using urine-soaked biochar is to recycle nutrients and charge the dry, sterile biochar.
First, I mix in active compost with the sterile char so there are hungry microbes lurking when the urine is poured through the mix.
Second, the container is large and has small holes in the bottom allowing the excess liquid to slowly drip out the bottom. You will find contaminated water strained through charcoal comes out mostly pure as the nutrients are stripped from aqueous solution
to reside within the biochar.
Third, this charged biochar is then mixed into the rough side of my compost pile which helps preserve the detritus from gassing off as it rots while also integrating with the other soil microbes.
Fourth, the working raw pile of compost is turned into a finished pile of compost to sit until cool.
By the time this material is applied to the garden soil, the microbiology has done its magic. No worries. Aerobic compost has a healthy smell with dominant non-pathogenic bacteria that have their way with the bad bacteria.
If plated and isolated very carefully, healthy soil probably contains something of everything in its makeup. Immerse into this biological cloud sans mask and gloves. Eat the occasional raw beet, carrot, or potato fresh from the garden with a patina of dirt.
It's all good.
Just do it because it is the right thing to do.
Jim
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> on behalf of Kevin McLean <info@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 5:09 AM
To: Biochar Listserv <biochar@groups.io>
Subject: [Biochar] Sterilize Biochar Charged with Urine
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application?
The
WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar
charged with urine (or manure)?
Thank you,
Kevin
Kevin McLean, President
Sun24
Tampa, Florida, USA
+1 (813) 505-3340
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Yes Kevin,
your description of reasoning , methodology, time allowed and credible considerations are all aiming at best practice and superb developments.
If you make the biochar you may like to quench and soak the char in the urine at the earliest (hot, warm, ultra-dry) stage. The follow the process as you outlined.
Have lots of productive fun and please take photos of the effects your Biochar process has on the production in the garden and on the land to share here with the network/ discussion group.
Best regards and thanks for sharing
Frank
From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of jim karnofski
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 6:17 PM
To: main@Biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Sterilize Biochar Charged with Urine The purpose of using urine-soaked biochar is to recycle nutrients and charge the dry, sterile biochar. First, I mix in active compost with the sterile char so there are hungry microbes lurking when the urine is poured through the mix. Second, the container is large and has small holes in the bottom allowing the excess liquid to slowly drip out the bottom. You will find contaminated water strained through charcoal comes out mostly pure as the nutrients are stripped from aqueous solution to reside within the biochar. Third, this charged biochar is then mixed into the rough side of my compost pile which helps preserve the detritus from gassing off as it rots while also integrating with the other soil microbes. Fourth, the working raw pile of compost is turned into a finished pile of compost to sit until cool. By the time this material is applied to the garden soil, the microbiology has done its magic. No worries. Aerobic compost has a healthy smell with dominant non-pathogenic bacteria that have their way with the bad bacteria. If plated and isolated very carefully, healthy soil probably contains something of everything in its makeup. Immerse into this biological cloud sans mask and gloves. Eat the occasional raw beet, carrot, or potato fresh from the garden with a patina of dirt. It's all good. Just do it because it is the right thing to do.
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application? The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
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Thanks, Frank. We are moving toward this model which allows poor smallholder farmers to collect, charge and store biochar year round:
Put an empty charcoal/rice bag in a hole in the ground. These inexpensive PP bags are porous. As the char is made, add it and urine to the bag. When the bag is full, the char should be charged and excess liquid will have drained away. Put the bag of biochar out and store it for the planting season. Put another empty bag in the hole and start the process again.
Most smallholder farmers have little or no manure and don't know how to compost. We will recommend they add whatever manure they have to the biochar.
Yes Kevin,
your description of reasoning , methodology, time allowed and credible considerations are all aiming at best practice and superb developments.
If you make the biochar you may like to quench and soak the char in the urine at the earliest (hot, warm, ultra-dry) stage. The follow the process as you outlined.
Have lots of productive fun and please take photos of the effects your Biochar process has on the production in the garden and on the land to share here with the network/ discussion group.
Best regards and thanks for sharing
Frank
The purpose of using urine-soaked biochar is to recycle nutrients and charge the dry, sterile biochar. First, I mix in active compost with the sterile char so there are hungry microbes lurking when the urine is poured through the mix. Second, the container is large and has small holes in the bottom allowing the excess liquid to slowly drip out the bottom. You will find contaminated water strained through charcoal comes out mostly pure as the nutrients are stripped from aqueous solution to reside within the biochar. Third, this charged biochar is then mixed into the rough side of my compost pile which helps preserve the detritus from gassing off as it rots while also integrating with the other soil microbes. Fourth, the working raw pile of compost is turned into a finished pile of compost to sit until cool. By the time this material is applied to the garden soil, the microbiology has done its magic. No worries. Aerobic compost has a healthy smell with dominant non-pathogenic bacteria that have their way with the bad bacteria. If plated and isolated very carefully, healthy soil probably contains something of everything in its makeup. Immerse into this biological cloud sans mask and gloves. Eat the occasional raw beet, carrot, or potato fresh from the garden with a patina of dirt. It's all good. Just do it because it is the right thing to do.
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application? The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
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All,
Just in case you haven’t heard of them, there is an organization here in the US that promotes the use of human urine in agriculture. It’s called the Rich Earth Institute and they are headquartered in Brattleboro, Vermont (in New England). If you’re curious, here is their website: http://richearthinstitute.org/ . They are trying to develop standards for urine use in agriculture. I don’t know whether there are similar organizations in other countries.
On Sep 23, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Kevin McLean < info@...> wrote:
Thanks, Frank. We are moving toward this model which allows poor smallholder farmers to collect, charge and store biochar year round:
Put an empty charcoal/rice bag in a hole in the ground. These inexpensive PP bags are porous. As the char is made, add it and urine to the bag. When the bag is full, the char should be charged and excess liquid will have drained away. Put the bag of biochar out and store it for the planting season. Put another empty bag in the hole and start the process again.
Most smallholder farmers have little or no manure and don't know how to compost. We will recommend they add whatever manure they have to the biochar. Yes Kevin,
your description of reasoning , methodology, time allowed and credible considerations are all aiming at best practice and superb developments.
If you make the biochar you may like to quench and soak the char in the urine at the earliest (hot, warm, ultra-dry) stage. The follow the process as you outlined.
Have lots of productive fun and please take photos of the effects your Biochar process has on the production in the garden and on the land to share here with the network/ discussion group.
Best regards and thanks for sharing
Frank
The purpose of using urine-soaked biochar is to recycle nutrients and charge the dry, sterile biochar. First, I mix in active compost with the sterile char so there are hungry microbes lurking when the urine is poured through the mix. Second, the container is large and has small holes in the bottom allowing the excess liquid to slowly drip out the bottom. You will find contaminated water strained through charcoal comes out mostly pure as the nutrients are stripped from aqueous solution to reside within the biochar. Third, this charged biochar is then mixed into the rough side of my compost pile which helps preserve the detritus from gassing off as it rots while also integrating with the other soil microbes. Fourth, the working raw pile of compost is turned into a finished pile of compost to sit until cool. By the time this material is applied to the garden soil, the microbiology has done its magic. No worries. Aerobic compost has a healthy smell with dominant non-pathogenic bacteria that have their way with the bad bacteria. If plated and isolated very carefully, healthy soil probably contains something of everything in its makeup. Immerse into this biological cloud sans mask and gloves. Eat the occasional raw beet, carrot, or potato fresh from the garden with a patina of dirt. It's all good. Just do it because it is the right thing to do.
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application? The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
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Kim, the Rich Earth Institute does excellent work with urine. It held its three-day virtual summit last week, at which I briefly presented on this topic. The summit was recorded and can be viewed here.
All,
Just in case you haven’t heard of them, there is an organization here in the US that promotes the use of human urine in agriculture. It’s called the Rich Earth Institute and they are headquartered in Brattleboro, Vermont (in New England). If you’re curious, here is their website: http://richearthinstitute.org/ . They are trying to develop standards for urine use in agriculture. I don’t know whether there are similar organizations in other countries.
Kim Chaffee
http://richearthinstitute.org/ On Sep 23, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Kevin McLean < info@...> wrote:
Thanks, Frank. We are moving toward this model which allows poor smallholder farmers to collect, charge and store biochar year round:
Put an empty charcoal/rice bag in a hole in the ground. These inexpensive PP bags are porous. As the char is made, add it and urine to the bag. When the bag is full, the char should be charged and excess liquid will have drained away. Put the bag of biochar out and store it for the planting season. Put another empty bag in the hole and start the process again.
Most smallholder farmers have little or no manure and don't know how to compost. We will recommend they add whatever manure they have to the biochar. Yes Kevin,
your description of reasoning , methodology, time allowed and credible considerations are all aiming at best practice and superb developments.
If you make the biochar you may like to quench and soak the char in the urine at the earliest (hot, warm, ultra-dry) stage. The follow the process as you outlined.
Have lots of productive fun and please take photos of the effects your Biochar process has on the production in the garden and on the land to share here with the network/ discussion group.
Best regards and thanks for sharing
Frank
The purpose of using urine-soaked biochar is to recycle nutrients and charge the dry, sterile biochar. First, I mix in active compost with the sterile char so there are hungry microbes lurking when the urine is poured through the mix. Second, the container is large and has small holes in the bottom allowing the excess liquid to slowly drip out the bottom. You will find contaminated water strained through charcoal comes out mostly pure as the nutrients are stripped from aqueous solution to reside within the biochar. Third, this charged biochar is then mixed into the rough side of my compost pile which helps preserve the detritus from gassing off as it rots while also integrating with the other soil microbes. Fourth, the working raw pile of compost is turned into a finished pile of compost to sit until cool. By the time this material is applied to the garden soil, the microbiology has done its magic. No worries. Aerobic compost has a healthy smell with dominant non-pathogenic bacteria that have their way with the bad bacteria. If plated and isolated very carefully, healthy soil probably contains something of everything in its makeup. Immerse into this biological cloud sans mask and gloves. Eat the occasional raw beet, carrot, or potato fresh from the garden with a patina of dirt. It's all good. Just do it because it is the right thing to do.
Does biochar charged with urine need to be stored for a month before application? The WHO recommends that urine to be applied as fertilizer on food crops that are processed should be stored for a month to kill pathogens. Urine should be stored for six months for crops that are eaten raw. Is there a similar storage requirement for biochar charged with urine (or manure)?
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