Topics

Will wood chips suffocate a burn? #technology


Dick Gallien
 

Nando, Hugh and Company

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.
Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us



Nando Breiter
 

Dick,

I think the way to proceed is to try one of your ideas at small scale first so it doesn't attract any attention, and doesn't pose any danger, if something goes sideways. If it seems to work well, gradually scale it up one step at a time. If it doesn't, change your approach and try it again. Make some videos for us so we can learn from you. 

n








On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 4:03 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:
Nando, Hugh and Company

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.
Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us



--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


Dick Gallien
 

Greetings Nando
I didn't charge to dump wood chips and the word got around fast.  I didn't know there'd be that many and was going to ask for suggestions on how to use the heat from burning brush to char the damp green chips. I could spread the chips on the hayfield.  A Canadian promoted enriching farm fields with "ramial wood chips" (from brush under 3" dia., which deer and goats thrive on in winter).   A brush pile is by the chip pile and this is a way to see if chips work in this way.  If not packed by the dozer, they'd smolder forever.  It would be difficult and not that interesting to test on a small scale.  The City will be coming with their usual 400 truck loads of street leaves soon.and the chips are sitting where the leaves will be dumped.  Sue will document what happens, including if the dozer drops in a pocket, mined by pyrolysis.  

So many good comments you made on the turtle/tank. As when using four 7.5' vertical tanks, I'd start burning brush in the base of each then add a grapple of brush every 15 min., so there'd be little smoke -- same for the 10' dia X 30' turtle/tank, keep adding until full of coals, then roll it.  Can have a 4" bent pipe on each end, buried in the dirt, which should be the gas escape of least resistance.

Seems you said the pyrolysis would end when the the pyrolysis runs out of O,  Does that mean the syngases can't pyrolosize on their own?  The  lid on the 10.5' dia. X 16' tank vertically in the ground obviously leaked the acrid gases out and O in.because the pyrolysis gases kept the lid very warm for 3 wks., cooling when everything became charred.  Since keeping crude tanks airtight isn't apt to happen, my question as to whether pyrolysis can continue in any tank without oxygen is irrelevant. 

I've told Sue, the other student of making biochar, to respond to your thoughts on her/your kiln   It is too complex for me.  Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away, means the 8' wide trench would  have to be a dumpster or Hugh rightfully warned me about a 20' to 40' shipping container not lasting long, but they are around $2500 at 40' and a skid steer with jaws on the bucket or forks, that would test your ideas. Banks would cave, but a 40' X 8' X 8 to 10' high  and our clay would become brick like from the heat, then we'd have to show no flame, smoke or fumes other than 8 to 4pm., but one would be making a sizeable dent in all this "waste wood".  I like to emphasize that waste wood has forever been written off by the Mn protectors of natural resources, DNR Forestry Dept. and others as of zero value---and, how wrong they are.  Thanks, Dick .  .  
.  

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:03 AM Nando Breiter <nando@...> wrote:
Dick,

I think the way to proceed is to try one of your ideas at small scale first so it doesn't attract any attention, and doesn't pose any danger, if something goes sideways. If it seems to work well, gradually scale it up one step at a time. If it doesn't, change your approach and try it again. Make some videos for us so we can learn from you. 

n








On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 4:03 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:
Nando, Hugh and Company

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.
Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us



--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


David Yarrow
 

my god, dick, you're certainly playing with fire.
haven't digested yer photo & text yet – just a quick scan.
stirs up a lot of comments, but i got 3 fingers to type.

first, you better have some serious on-farm fire suppression equipment on hand 
– just in case.
a good friend a VT town fire marshall, and captain of montana fire fighting unit; 
he would stop by for a long conversation if you was in his town.

that said, second, water is a critical, powerful element in these biomass burners.
water in a burn becomes quickly steam, soaks up heat, drops temperatures sharply 
– until you get to white hot heat, which shreds H2O – you don't wanna go there.
i saw a roaring red hot fierbox on an early primitive version of an adam retort; 
one piece of wet wood was tossed in the firebox, 
and seconds later, smoke came out the exhaust chimney.
water-into-steam is an ancient practice of fire suppression.
so, looking at your photo, yer woodchips are likely quite damp, 
being in michigan, not southern CA.
in a big pile, deeper you dig, wetter the chips are.

third, charcoal burns much hotter than wood 
– that's why a TLUD works.
being much hotter, a glowing mass of charcoal will need far more water 
than a low temperature, low density woodfire.
so, snuffing out yer huge smoldering pile may be an extra trick or two 
– at least much more water.
also, charcoal burns with almost no visible flame 
– more like a faint red halo 
– more heat than light.
so, a huge heap of burnt biomass that's starved for oxygen 
can smolder a long time without much notice, 
until it gets some oxygen and/or flammable fuel and/or boils off the water .

i'm more interested in devices to fit inside a building for functional heat, 
but my 3 fingers aren't likely to build anything.

for a green & peaceful planet,
david yarrow
5Element.jpg

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 9:03 AM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:
Nando, Hugh and Company

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.
Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us



Paul S Anderson
 

Dick,

 

You wrote:

Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away,

 

I will interpret the smiley face to mean you were joking about me, when in fact I actually did something to try to move forward with such a large pyrolyzer.   If you ever really have a plan and the funding to do something, that cylinder can certainly be made available  to you.

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dick Gallien via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 2:45 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Will wood chips suffocate a burn?

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

Greetings Nando

I didn't charge to dump wood chips and the word got around fast.  I didn't know there'd be that many and was going to ask for suggestions on how to use the heat from burning brush to char the damp green chips. I could spread the chips on the hayfield.  A Canadian promoted enriching farm fields with "ramial wood chips" (from brush under 3" dia., which deer and goats thrive on in winter).   A brush pile is by the chip pile and this is a way to see if chips work in this way.  If not packed by the dozer, they'd smolder forever.  It would be difficult and not that interesting to test on a small scale.  The City will be coming with their usual 400 truck loads of street leaves soon.and the chips are sitting where the leaves will be dumped.  Sue will document what happens, including if the dozer drops in a pocket, mined by pyrolysis.  

 

So many good comments you made on the turtle/tank. As when using four 7.5' vertical tanks, I'd start burning brush in the base of each then add a grapple of brush every 15 min., so there'd be little smoke -- same for the 10' dia X 30' turtle/tank, keep adding until full of coals, then roll it.  Can have a 4" bent pipe on each end, buried in the dirt, which should be the gas escape of least resistance.

 

Seems you said the pyrolysis would end when the the pyrolysis runs out of O,  Does that mean the syngases can't pyrolosize on their own?  The  lid on the 10.5' dia. X 16' tank vertically in the ground obviously leaked the acrid gases out and O in.because the pyrolysis gases kept the lid very warm for 3 wks., cooling when everything became charred.  Since keeping crude tanks airtight isn't apt to happen, my question as to whether pyrolysis can continue in any tank without oxygen is irrelevant. 

 

I've told Sue, the other student of making biochar, to respond to your thoughts on her/your kiln   It is too complex for me.  Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away, means the 8' wide trench would  have to be a dumpster or Hugh rightfully warned me about a 20' to 40' shipping container not lasting long, but they are around $2500 at 40' and a skid steer with jaws on the bucket or forks, that would test your ideas. Banks would cave, but a 40' X 8' X 8 to 10' high  and our clay would become brick like from the heat, then we'd have to show no flame, smoke or fumes other than 8 to 4pm., but one would be making a sizeable dent in all this "waste wood".  I like to emphasize that waste wood has forever been written off by the Mn protectors of natural resources, DNR Forestry Dept. and others as of zero value---and, how wrong they are.  Thanks, Dick .  .  

.  

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:03 AM Nando Breiter <nando@...> wrote:

Dick,

 

I think the way to proceed is to try one of your ideas at small scale first so it doesn't attract any attention, and doesn't pose any danger, if something goes sideways. If it seems to work well, gradually scale it up one step at a time. If it doesn't, change your approach and try it again. Make some videos for us so we can learn from you. 

 

n



 

 

 

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 4:03 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:

Nando, Hugh and Company

 

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.

Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us

 

 


--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


Dick Gallien
 

Hi Paul,
Vultures fell off my fingers, because a few days ago we watched 11 vultures perched together and 2 bald eagles sitting contentedly 2 trees from them by the creek.  They were obviously full, because a deer had been hit on the road by the overlook.  If someone would've told me before it was flat, I'd have dragged it out in the hayfield, so people could have pull over and watch them eat.

I wasn't trying to make fun of you.  It was amazing that you found that free tank 20 mi. from here and wanted to make use of it here, which you can still do.  I have no money and don't know how you would use it,  anymore than Nando's plan was too complex for me and still would be cutting your tank in half lengthwise and hinging both halves over a trench.  Having an 8' wide X 40' damaged shipping container to support the trench walls would increase the volume, but still have a lot of holes.  Never know when one of our crazy ideas might prove workable.  It is difficult to think of a more worthy project.  Thanks Paul.     .  




On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 9:51 PM Paul S Anderson <psanders@...> wrote:

Dick,

 

You wrote:

Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away,

 

I will interpret the smiley face to mean you were joking about me, when in fact I actually did something to try to move forward with such a large pyrolyzer.   If you ever really have a plan and the funding to do something, that cylinder can certainly be made available  to you.

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dick Gallien via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 2:45 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Will wood chips suffocate a burn?

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

Greetings Nando

I didn't charge to dump wood chips and the word got around fast.  I didn't know there'd be that many and was going to ask for suggestions on how to use the heat from burning brush to char the damp green chips. I could spread the chips on the hayfield.  A Canadian promoted enriching farm fields with "ramial wood chips" (from brush under 3" dia., which deer and goats thrive on in winter).   A brush pile is by the chip pile and this is a way to see if chips work in this way.  If not packed by the dozer, they'd smolder forever.  It would be difficult and not that interesting to test on a small scale.  The City will be coming with their usual 400 truck loads of street leaves soon.and the chips are sitting where the leaves will be dumped.  Sue will document what happens, including if the dozer drops in a pocket, mined by pyrolysis.  

 

So many good comments you made on the turtle/tank. As when using four 7.5' vertical tanks, I'd start burning brush in the base of each then add a grapple of brush every 15 min., so there'd be little smoke -- same for the 10' dia X 30' turtle/tank, keep adding until full of coals, then roll it.  Can have a 4" bent pipe on each end, buried in the dirt, which should be the gas escape of least resistance.

 

Seems you said the pyrolysis would end when the the pyrolysis runs out of O,  Does that mean the syngases can't pyrolosize on their own?  The  lid on the 10.5' dia. X 16' tank vertically in the ground obviously leaked the acrid gases out and O in.because the pyrolysis gases kept the lid very warm for 3 wks., cooling when everything became charred.  Since keeping crude tanks airtight isn't apt to happen, my question as to whether pyrolysis can continue in any tank without oxygen is irrelevant. 

 

I've told Sue, the other student of making biochar, to respond to your thoughts on her/your kiln   It is too complex for me.  Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away, means the 8' wide trench would  have to be a dumpster or Hugh rightfully warned me about a 20' to 40' shipping container not lasting long, but they are around $2500 at 40' and a skid steer with jaws on the bucket or forks, that would test your ideas. Banks would cave, but a 40' X 8' X 8 to 10' high  and our clay would become brick like from the heat, then we'd have to show no flame, smoke or fumes other than 8 to 4pm., but one would be making a sizeable dent in all this "waste wood".  I like to emphasize that waste wood has forever been written off by the Mn protectors of natural resources, DNR Forestry Dept. and others as of zero value---and, how wrong they are.  Thanks, Dick .  .  

.  

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:03 AM Nando Breiter <nando@...> wrote:

Dick,

 

I think the way to proceed is to try one of your ideas at small scale first so it doesn't attract any attention, and doesn't pose any danger, if something goes sideways. If it seems to work well, gradually scale it up one step at a time. If it doesn't, change your approach and try it again. Make some videos for us so we can learn from you. 

 

n



 

 

 

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 4:03 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:

Nando, Hugh and Company

 

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.

Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us

 

 


--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


Tom Stephan <tom@...>
 

Paul. We biologists stop and drag road kill into fields away from traffic often. Once my friend and I set a dead raccoon on a boulder. He dubbed it the "Acme Better Buzzard Bird Feeder"! Lol.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:19 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Vultures fell off my fingers, because a few days ago we watched 11 vultures perched together and 2 bald eagles sitting contentedly 2 trees from them by the creek.  They were obviously full, because a deer had been hit on the road by the overlook.  If someone would've told me before it was flat, I'd have dragged it out in the hayfield, so people could have pull over and watch them eat.

I wasn't trying to make fun of you.  It was amazing that you found that free tank 20 mi. from here and wanted to make use of it here, which you can still do.  I have no money and don't know how you would use it,  anymore than Nando's plan was too complex for me and still would be cutting your tank in half lengthwise and hinging both halves over a trench.  Having an 8' wide X 40' damaged shipping container to support the trench walls would increase the volume, but still have a lot of holes.  Never know when one of our crazy ideas might prove workable.  It is difficult to think of a more worthy project.  Thanks Paul.     .  




On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 9:51 PM Paul S Anderson <psanders@...> wrote:

Dick,

 

You wrote:

Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away,

 

I will interpret the smiley face to mean you were joking about me, when in fact I actually did something to try to move forward with such a large pyrolyzer.   If you ever really have a plan and the funding to do something, that cylinder can certainly be made available  to you.

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dick Gallien via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 2:45 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Will wood chips suffocate a burn?

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

Greetings Nando

I didn't charge to dump wood chips and the word got around fast.  I didn't know there'd be that many and was going to ask for suggestions on how to use the heat from burning brush to char the damp green chips. I could spread the chips on the hayfield.  A Canadian promoted enriching farm fields with "ramial wood chips" (from brush under 3" dia., which deer and goats thrive on in winter).   A brush pile is by the chip pile and this is a way to see if chips work in this way.  If not packed by the dozer, they'd smolder forever.  It would be difficult and not that interesting to test on a small scale.  The City will be coming with their usual 400 truck loads of street leaves soon.and the chips are sitting where the leaves will be dumped.  Sue will document what happens, including if the dozer drops in a pocket, mined by pyrolysis.  

 

So many good comments you made on the turtle/tank. As when using four 7.5' vertical tanks, I'd start burning brush in the base of each then add a grapple of brush every 15 min., so there'd be little smoke -- same for the 10' dia X 30' turtle/tank, keep adding until full of coals, then roll it.  Can have a 4" bent pipe on each end, buried in the dirt, which should be the gas escape of least resistance.

 

Seems you said the pyrolysis would end when the the pyrolysis runs out of O,  Does that mean the syngases can't pyrolosize on their own?  The  lid on the 10.5' dia. X 16' tank vertically in the ground obviously leaked the acrid gases out and O in.because the pyrolysis gases kept the lid very warm for 3 wks., cooling when everything became charred.  Since keeping crude tanks airtight isn't apt to happen, my question as to whether pyrolysis can continue in any tank without oxygen is irrelevant. 

 

I've told Sue, the other student of making biochar, to respond to your thoughts on her/your kiln   It is too complex for me.  Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away, means the 8' wide trench would  have to be a dumpster or Hugh rightfully warned me about a 20' to 40' shipping container not lasting long, but they are around $2500 at 40' and a skid steer with jaws on the bucket or forks, that would test your ideas. Banks would cave, but a 40' X 8' X 8 to 10' high  and our clay would become brick like from the heat, then we'd have to show no flame, smoke or fumes other than 8 to 4pm., but one would be making a sizeable dent in all this "waste wood".  I like to emphasize that waste wood has forever been written off by the Mn protectors of natural resources, DNR Forestry Dept. and others as of zero value---and, how wrong they are.  Thanks, Dick .  .  

.  

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:03 AM Nando Breiter <nando@...> wrote:

Dick,

 

I think the way to proceed is to try one of your ideas at small scale first so it doesn't attract any attention, and doesn't pose any danger, if something goes sideways. If it seems to work well, gradually scale it up one step at a time. If it doesn't, change your approach and try it again. Make some videos for us so we can learn from you. 

 

n



 

 

 

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 4:03 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:

Nando, Hugh and Company

 

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.

Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us

 

 


--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland


Dick Gallien
 

  • Had Winona's Sustainability Coordinator out last wk., the City, County and WSU all have one, but they don't touch waste wood or food waste.  He asked, "Where did all those wood chips come from?".  Tree trimmers have been wasting their chips in a ditch free, 17 mi. one way from town, but the ;owner died .  Five days ago at 8 AM I lit the brush pile.  Two hrs. later over 2" of rain fell in one hr..  Dozing wet mud and compost at 4 PM snuffed half the pile, but packing wet green chips left hot spots on the other half, one of which surfaced this PM., so I won't do that again.  I have four 10.5' dia X 7.5' X 1/4" tanks with bottoms, but I mentioned how floppy when tipped.  I could put 55 ga. barrels, with a few holes in their bottoms on 1/2 a tank of brush, then easily fill the barrels, positioned in a tank with loader buckets full of chips, so spillage wouldn't matter; put the barrel lids on, plus more dry brush on top and light it.  Barrels are $5 apiece and probably don't last long. 

  • I could put one of those tanks on a few ft. of brush, load ithe tank with chips' set a 11' dia. fuel tank cap on, which would hold in some heat, but it seems unlikely it would char all the chips, unless some metal rim was placed around it to focus the heat..   

  •  Being able to recycle all of Winona's wood chips, brush and trees, almost guarantees that this farm can become Winona's Farm/Compost Site vs. another rich person's locked gate, show off estate.  Any cheap, simple woodchips to biochar suggestions will be appreciated.  Thanks, Dick 



On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 9:39 AM Tom Stephan <tom@...> wrote:
Paul. We biologists stop and drag road kill into fields away from traffic often. Once my friend and I set a dead raccoon on a boulder. He dubbed it the "Acme Better Buzzard Bird Feeder"! Lol.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:19 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Vultures fell off my fingers, because a few days ago we watched 11 vultures perched together and 2 bald eagles sitting contentedly 2 trees from them by the creek.  They were obviously full, because a deer had been hit on the road by the overlook.  If someone would've told me before it was flat, I'd have dragged it out in the hayfield, so people could have pull over and watch them eat.

I wasn't trying to make fun of you.  It was amazing that you found that free tank 20 mi. from here and wanted to make use of it here, which you can still do.  I have no money and don't know how you would use it,  anymore than Nando's plan was too complex for me and still would be cutting your tank in half lengthwise and hinging both halves over a trench.  Having an 8' wide X 40' damaged shipping container to support the trench walls would increase the volume, but still have a lot of holes.  Never know when one of our crazy ideas might prove workable.  It is difficult to think of a more worthy project.  Thanks Paul.     .  




On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 9:51 PM Paul S Anderson <psanders@...> wrote:

Dick,

 

You wrote:

Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away,

 

I will interpret the smiley face to mean you were joking about me, when in fact I actually did something to try to move forward with such a large pyrolyzer.   If you ever really have a plan and the funding to do something, that cylinder can certainly be made available  to you.

 

Paul

 

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com

         Email:  psanders@...       Skype:   paultlud

         Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434

Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP    Go to: www.JuntosNFP.org 

Inventor of RoCC kilns for biochar and energy:  See  www.woodgas.com

Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org)

         with pages 88 – 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.

 

From: main@Biochar.groups.io <main@Biochar.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dick Gallien via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 2:45 PM
To: main@biochar.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Biochar] Will wood chips suffocate a burn?

 

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to abuse@...]

Greetings Nando

I didn't charge to dump wood chips and the word got around fast.  I didn't know there'd be that many and was going to ask for suggestions on how to use the heat from burning brush to char the damp green chips. I could spread the chips on the hayfield.  A Canadian promoted enriching farm fields with "ramial wood chips" (from brush under 3" dia., which deer and goats thrive on in winter).   A brush pile is by the chip pile and this is a way to see if chips work in this way.  If not packed by the dozer, they'd smolder forever.  It would be difficult and not that interesting to test on a small scale.  The City will be coming with their usual 400 truck loads of street leaves soon.and the chips are sitting where the leaves will be dumped.  Sue will document what happens, including if the dozer drops in a pocket, mined by pyrolysis.  

 

So many good comments you made on the turtle/tank. As when using four 7.5' vertical tanks, I'd start burning brush in the base of each then add a grapple of brush every 15 min., so there'd be little smoke -- same for the 10' dia X 30' turtle/tank, keep adding until full of coals, then roll it.  Can have a 4" bent pipe on each end, buried in the dirt, which should be the gas escape of least resistance.

 

Seems you said the pyrolysis would end when the the pyrolysis runs out of O,  Does that mean the syngases can't pyrolosize on their own?  The  lid on the 10.5' dia. X 16' tank vertically in the ground obviously leaked the acrid gases out and O in.because the pyrolysis gases kept the lid very warm for 3 wks., cooling when everything became charred.  Since keeping crude tanks airtight isn't apt to happen, my question as to whether pyrolysis can continue in any tank without oxygen is irrelevant. 

 

I've told Sue, the other student of making biochar, to respond to your thoughts on her/your kiln   It is too complex for me.  Since the 10.5' dia. X 16' free tank that Vulture  Paul 😊 spotted and grabbed from 600 mi. away, means the 8' wide trench would  have to be a dumpster or Hugh rightfully warned me about a 20' to 40' shipping container not lasting long, but they are around $2500 at 40' and a skid steer with jaws on the bucket or forks, that would test your ideas. Banks would cave, but a 40' X 8' X 8 to 10' high  and our clay would become brick like from the heat, then we'd have to show no flame, smoke or fumes other than 8 to 4pm., but one would be making a sizeable dent in all this "waste wood".  I like to emphasize that waste wood has forever been written off by the Mn protectors of natural resources, DNR Forestry Dept. and others as of zero value---and, how wrong they are.  Thanks, Dick .  .  

.  

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:03 AM Nando Breiter <nando@...> wrote:

Dick,

 

I think the way to proceed is to try one of your ideas at small scale first so it doesn't attract any attention, and doesn't pose any danger, if something goes sideways. If it seems to work well, gradually scale it up one step at a time. If it doesn't, change your approach and try it again. Make some videos for us so we can learn from you. 

 

n



 

 

 

 

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 4:03 PM Dick Gallien <dickgallien@...> wrote:

Nando, Hugh and Company

 

What are your thoughts on burning a pile of brush, where I've done a smaller pile 5 times before, then when burned down to a glowing mass, suffocate it by dozing damp compost onto it, without packing it with the 2' wide dozer tracks plus 34,000 lbs.. 

 

 This time I'll doze 4 or 5' of green, moist wood chips over the coals and pack them with the dozer.at 4 PM, then put the sprinkler on them.

Do you think this will eliminate all signs of life from that glowing monster ?   It would be nice to let that heat char the chips, but after 4PM we'd be fined.  Sue predicts a visit from "The Law".. This is the loader on the woodchip pile.  Leaves are turning, there's frost on the roof this morning, Winona is in the banana belt of Mn., but Bill down under, I doubt .01% heat only with wood, where  -20F is common. .  Thanks, Dick 

 

Dick Gallien 
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona  MN  55987
dickgallien@...  [507] 312 0194
www.thefarm.winona-mn.us

 

 


--
Nando Breiter
http://biochar.info
CarbonZero Sagl
Astano, Switzerland